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 This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.

  ?? Water-loving Anthurium species
From: Devin Biggs <dbiggs at xantusidesign.net> on 2009.09.22 at 01:02:59(20060)
Hi All,

I recently ran into a thread on the UBC Botanical Garden Forums which mentioned several terrestrial Anthurium species that occur in
very wet situations in nature, including river banks and streamside rocks. The roots of these anthuriums might grow right in the water
or in very wet media for extended periods or permanently. I am on the hunt for Anthurium that grow well in saturated soils and wonder
if anybody can help me to source some of these plants(?).

Here are some of the species mentioned in those forum posts:

A. amnicola
A. antiquiense
A. riparium
A. rivularis
A. rupicola
A. sagittatum
A. werfii

Is there a technical terms to describe plants that grow on rocks with their roots in the water? There are a number of aquarium plants
that use such habitats.

Thanks for considering this. I really would like to hear any ideas for sources that might come to mind. Incidentally, a post in that same
thread also mentioned that "both amnicola and rupicola grow in sympatry with a fully aquatic Spathiphyllum sp.". I have never heard of
any fully-aquatic Spathiphyllum, and I would really like to know more about that too.

Thanks very much!

Regards,

Devin

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From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2009.09.24 at 15:09:51(20067)
Hello,

Plants growing on rocks and stones are epilithic plants (epilithes) or
rheophytes,
I don't know if there is a special term for plants growing near water.

Marek

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From: Jay Vannini <heloderma5 at hotmail.com> on 2009.09.24 at 18:18:51(20070)
Not sure if the list accepted a post from my other mail-server....a thousand pardons if this post is duplicated.

 

Greetings:

 

The images mentioned on the UBC website are mine, taken near El Guabal on the Caribbean versant of Veraguas Prov. Panama in late October 2007. According to an unpubl. (?) treatment of rheophytic anthuriums that Dr. Croat provided me some years back, A. rupicola is the lone member of Sect. Porphyrochitonium that survives his taxonomic revision of these puppies...all the other taxa mentioned are now considered to be Sect. Calomystrium. Having grown, wild-collected and propagated some of these spp. I happen to agree with this arrangement. Previously, all of these lance-leaf Anthurium spp. (incl. well-known ones such as amnicola and antioquiense) were also considered to be part of Sect. Porphyrochitonium and are treated as such by Kamemoto and Kuehnle in their '96 work on breeding ornamental anthuriums. 

 

I have encountered the fully aquatic Spath mentioned both at the locality and in fast-flowing, boulder-strewn lowland streams flowing into the Caribbean in Omar Torrijos NP in Coclé. Plants are identical in general appearance to the rheophytic anthuriums being discussed, always deeply-rooted in gravel bottoms and always growing in less than 90 cm (3') of water, usually at depths less than 60 cm (2') near the edge. I remember that I found a name for this plant way back when, but Mr. Alzie eroding my memory...Dr. Croat will no doubt be able to provide a binomial for those interested.

 

I grow antioquiense, amnicola and rupicola. Easy but extremely sensitive to drying out between waterings (natch!).

 

I believe that a hort hybrid between antioquiense and amnicola that was developed years back at U Hawaii is (was?) circulating in SoFlo as true antioquiense...they tend to exhibit the lilac background color of  the amnicola parent, the greater size and vigor of antioquiense, but are not noticeably fragrant at anthesis.

 

As has been mentioned elsewhere, my observations in seasonally-flooded areas of upper Amazonia coincide with others...that PLENTY of terrestrial plants (including some Anthurium spp.) spend many months with there roots and lower stems fully submerged and are clear candidates for culture in (large) paludariums. Beyond this, I did collect an apparently undescr. cordate-leaf sp. of anthurium in eastern Perú that was rooted smack in the middle of a permanent stream. Seed from this taxon was distributed to some people on this forum in 2001 and it is my understanding that Lynn Hannon donated her collection of these plants to MOBOT prior to her passing, so it may persist in culture at that BG. I still keep a few here for laughs.

 

Cheerio,

 

J

 
> From: dbiggs@xantusidesign.net

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From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.09.25 at 15:32:11(20071)
Dear Devin,

A few snippets of info:.
Re: Spathiphyllum cannifolium, I know about this species, as in my homeland this is the only species which occurs naturally.   I have seen it growing (very large groups of crowded plants groing VERY close one to the other) in ''beds'' of gravel brought down by the rivers (in T`dad I have only seen it growing on the banks/sides of rivers, never in jungle far from a stream or river) and deposited on curves, say gravel 4" thick and with water slowly perculating/flowing through it.  After a swollen river/high water event, you often see that these unstable gravel beds have been cut into by the water`s flow, and many plants are washed downriver to establish themselves, others are left with exposed roots washing in the river, no harm seems to have been done.
During the days of ''high water'' some of the lower growing beds of Spathiphyllum will be completely under water with little or no future harm seen.   The plants growing under these conditions look healthy, but because of the relatively depauperate condition of this gravel substrate they grow in, they seldom attain the size and sexual condition of other plants growing on slightly higher and more fertile ground , say about 2-3' above the river, blackish very fertile soil.  These can be close to 6' tall.  They bear thousands of blooms in season, and from the literature I read where the unopened blooms (blooms only!) used to be collected and cooked as food.  Like the collection and use as food of the newly emerging leaves and blooms of Caladium bicolor, one has to live close by a huge wild population of either of these plants, and have a keen awareness of the ''seasons''/rainfall to be able to take advantage of collecting these food resources, available in only a small ''window'' of weather/opportunity. 
Concerning the Anthuriums and other plants you seek, especially A. amnicola, if I were you I`d try contacting our friends in Hawaii (Windy Aubry comes to mind!), as this species was said to be very difficult to grow under most g/house conditions most of ''us'' would use.   In Hawaii, the breeders got hold of this species, and they, probably having the $$, grew it like an aquatic, and it is a parent of MANY of the ''new'' Anthuriums sold commercially, ''Lady Jane'' comes to mind.   I don`t know of anyone at present who may have this in his collection!  Maybe someone will write in.
I THINK Dr. Croat had an article in an Aroideana one before the latest specially on this group of Anthuriums?  Do you get Aroideana??
I see in Deni Bown`s EXCELLENT book on ALL aroids, on pg. 158 she makes mention of several other Anthurium sps. which may be as good as A. amnicola for your methods, such as  A sytsmae from Panama.
This has become too long a ''tome'' for aroid-l, so IF you`d like, more later re: your methods, size limitations because of size of Aquarium, etc., let me know!

Good Growing,

Julius Boos
WPB,  FLORIDA.

> From: dbiggs@xantusidesign.net

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From: "Harry Luther" <hluther at selby.org> on 2009.09.26 at 20:56:09(20074)
Rheophytes. HEL

-----Original Message-----
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com

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From: "Christopher Rogers" <crogers at ecoanalysts.com> on 2009.09.26 at 23:50:35(20075)
Greetings,

. . . actually, Marek, I think that rheophytes are plants that grow next to
flowing water and have their roots growing out into the current, or are
plants that actually grow in flowing water.

Happy days,

Christopher

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From: Devin Biggs <dbiggs at xantusidesign.net> on 2009.09.27 at 05:13:50(20077)
Julius,

Thanks very much for those insights. I really hope that I can get a hold of some species Spathiphyllum, but I don't have any real solid
leads yet. The common hybrid cultivars that I have tried so far are some of the best plants for growing in ripariums, but the shorter-
statured commercially available ones are rather limited.

The link below goes to a shot of my tank that includes several Spathiphyllum as background foliage. There are also several large
Cryptocoryne and Anubias in the abovewater portion.

http://hydrophytesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/2-ix-09-crypts-tank-i-m.jpg

I haven't tried any Anthurium yet. I should purchase a few Home Depot plants that look like amnicola crosses just to see what they will
do. I really would like to get some species. I plan to put together an inquiry for Ecuagenera to see if they might be able to turn anything
up and I should also get in touch with Windy Audry.

I'm sorry I'm ignorant what is the Deni Bown book?

Thanks very much for considering my questions.

Regards,

Devin

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From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.09.27 at 13:42:16(20079)
Dear All Aquatic aroid lovers,

Another note w/ info. on the group of aroids I love best.
A special 'hello' to Christopher ''the Younger'' Rogers and to Devin, there will be a few snippets in this which apply to both of you.
First off, Christopher, cultivate the contacts w/ my dear friend Jay Vaninni in Guatemalea, he is THE man concerning info. on most obscure aroids and growing methods, especially Anthurium and Philo. sps.!   Dr. Tom Croat, in one of his talks last w/end paid tribute to Jay and his knowledge.  He if anyone can tell you how to grow A. amnicola, though I`ll give a suggestion on a method I used with a VERY difficult to cultivate Caladium cf. picturatum which grows under very wet/swampy conditions.  Jay`s invaluable observations and information is below!
OK--Devin, I have not heard from you as yet as to IF you have acess to back issues of the older Aroideanas or Deni Bown`s EXCELLENT book on aroids, but there is info. that you need to read on growing aquatics in them.   Two articles come to mind, both by me.  In Aroideana Vol. 16, pgs. 33-36, "Experiencing Urospathas", and in Aroideana Vol. 20, pgs.13-26, "Observations on New World Araceae-Lasieae''.  In them you will find good information on the cultivation methods I used to grow these usually most difficult plants to show-winning specimens.  Some of these plants, plus the Asian genus Cyrtosperma, are in MY opinion the KINGS of all aquatic aroids.
Later on I`ll give info. on some improvements made to these methods by Enid and Sam of "Natural Selections Exotics" (www.NSExotics.com).
Your method of cultivation of aquatic aroids in aquariums does limit what species can be grown, you can grow only the smaller species, while some/many aquatic aroids grow to be close to 6'+ (up to 18'!) in height!   If you have a green house, and by incorporating Enid`s method, many of the larger species CAN be grown in cooler/cold areas as long as you have the space inside your greenhouse.   Most do NOT tollerate cool/cold air temps. AND cool water, but there are ways to overcome this.
Devin---first off, I have been thinking of SMALLER species of aquatic aroids, both native AND exotic which would be fantastic if obtained and grown under your aquarium conditions.   The most beautiful and interesting Orontium aquaticum (a.k.a. "golden club", a native) and a small specimen of Peltandra (native) should work well!
On the exotic side, ask around for Colocasia affinis and others in this group.   They are remarkably beautiful SMALL wild Asian species (10" tall max.??), and grow very well with ''wet'' roots.  Their beautifully marked leaf blades rival in markings and beauty the much larger Colocasia ''illustrus" in your photographs, Google them??  Our friend Pete Boyce may be able to give some info. on species, etc., and maybe Enid just MIGHT either have specimens for sale or might know of a source, I`ve seen them in collections from time to time around S. Florida.
The beautiful Caladium steudnerifolium (Ecuadorian, but up to 30" tall) also grows wet, in nature it is sometimes seen with its roots actually growing in flowing streams, I am told.  Enid may have this.
The method I used to grow a good, undamaged specimen of the swamp-loving Caladium sp. was to pot the plant in a well-draining mix, in the pots bottom was about 3" of larva rock.  I put about 2" of pea-gravel in a LARGE shallow plastic saucer (30" dia.?), I kept the saucer 1/2 filed with water and placed the pot in its center on the pea gravel/water with only about 1/2" of the potted plants bottom in the water.  The very high humidity created by water in the large saucer seemed to keep the plants most delicate leaves from drying out and ''curling'' at the edges. (Devin, Steve Lucas might have plants of this Caladium sp. from me, VERY sagittate leaves, lilac v-markings, ask him), it WILL grow wet
Enids method of growing the larger Urospatha and Cyrtosperma sps. VERY well during the cooler Florida months, when the temp. of the water in the necessary saucers got cool/cold, causing the roots of these delicate plants to die, and the cooler air temps. caused the beautiful leaves to dry and look bad, was/is as follows.   She and Sam set up some large plastic ''kiddie pools'' and some smaller ''cement mixing containers", maybe 4' X 4' by 12" deep (availble at H/Depot, etc.)   They added about maybe 5" of water in these containers, plus a cheap aquarium water heater AND one of those cheap ''pumps'' which are commonly used to circulate the water of marine fish tanks with which to move the heated water around.   The actual potted plants were placed on bricks (with spaces between the bricks) so that only say 1" - 2" of their bottoms, sitting ON the bricks, were actually IN the water. (and these potted plants had about 3" of larva rock in THEIR bottoms, so NO soil was under water!).   This set-up allowed the warm (NOT HOT!) heated water to circulate, and rising heat in the cool g/house prevented a LOT of damage to their leaves from the cool/cold air from occuring!  The aquatics I saw growin under these conditions in the cool Florida winter were just fantastic!
Enough for now.

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From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2009.09.27 at 18:45:53(20084)
It is not so simple with water and wetlands plants. These growing on rocky river banks are rheohytes, growing at swamps are helophytes, growing in ponds and lakes emerged or submerged are limnophytes, besides many of them are hydrophytes (simply: water plants) and there is also a name for floating plants, but I forgot.

Marek

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From: Adam Black <epiphyte1 at earthlink.net> on 2009.09.28 at 05:21:18(20085)
To expand on the techniques Julius mentions for growing aquatic aroids, here is how we grow seedlings of the cold-sensitive giant Victoria water lilies in a greenhouse in the winter to give them a head-start before planting them in the outdoor ponds when the weather warms up. I have great luck including my pots of Cyrtosperma, Montrichardia, Lasia, Lasiomorpha, Anubias, etc in these tanks during the winter.

We use a 10 foot diameter galvenized stock tanks used for watering cattle (they are about two feet deep, don't know exactly, and don't know how much water they hold) inside a greenhouse. To heat the water, we use a "backpack" style mini water heater normally intended for use in RV's/campers. An ordinary water pump made for pond waterfalls is connected to the heater via flexible tubing, and this pumps water from the tank into the water heater. The heated water is then routed back into the tank through PVC pipe, directing the water away from the intake pump in a direction that circulates the water all the way around the tank in a circular pattern back towards the pump.

With the volume of water in the above mentioned tank, it is not effective to wait until the water is cold before turning the water heater on, as it is unable to heat it up sufficiently in a relatively quick manner. This might be different if a smaller volume of water was used. A tank located in a sunny greenhouse will collect a lot of heat during the day that gradually gets released through the night, and therefore having the heater run continuously 24 hrs/day will do a great job at maintaining the warm water temperatures through the night. The heater we use has a built-in thermostat so it isn't constantly running, switching off during the warmer portions of the day. With this method, in an unheated greenhouse the water will be around 78 degrees Farenheight when it is below freezing outside. Of course there are a number of factors to consider - greenhouse size, sun exposure (heat build-up during the day), volume of water vs capacity of water heater, daytime high temperatures outside of greenhouse, supplemental ambient heating in greenhouse, etc. This is our experience in northern Florida where we regularly experience a number of nightly hard freezes each winter.

As an added benefit, this method can be used as supplemental heating for a smaller greenhouse, reducing the energy demands on traditional greenhouse heaters that are controlled by thermostats. Quite a bit of heat is released into the greenhouse through the night from the warm water. Supplemental heat may not be even necessary during mild cold snaps in a smaller greenhouse, depending on the ratio of water volume to the size of the greenhouse.

For anyone who wants to keep a large collection of tropical aquatic aroids and other plants, this is a good option for at least overwintering. This method could easily be adapted to a more natural looking in-ground greenhouse pond as well. In addition to the heat, the continuous water circulation surely benefits the plants. Though aquatic plants are often growing in seemingly anaerobic conditions in nature, stagnant conditions in artificial situations (pots) can be fatal to many aquatic plants.

Adam Black

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From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.09.29 at 12:59:24(20090)
GREAT ideas, Adam!  
These will work perfectly.   I THINK that the final para. on movement of water is the most important;  I have to constantly POUND the info. on keeping the ''soli''/mix INSIDE the pots ABOVE the water`s surface, this is a certain death sentence. to all aquatic plants, but the movement of water might at least HELP to reduce the rotting of this ''soil'' and the death of the plant

Julius

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From: "Christopher Rogers" <crogers at ecoanalysts.com> on 2009.09.29 at 23:07:22(20094)
Right!

D. Christopher Rogers

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From: Devin Biggs <dbiggs at xantusidesign.net> on 2009.09.30 at 07:54:23(20095)
Thanks Adam, Those are good points. I have also found that certain emergent aquatics fail in oxygen-poor substrates. I have had good luck using fired
clay "kitty litter" gravels as substrate alternatives having a more coarse and open grain structure. A few plants that I grow, such as certain Spathiphyllum,
and Colocasia taros, seem to require even more oxygen and free water diffusion around their roots. For these I have used those round Hydroton clay
pellets, also with good results

An innovation that I learned about from aquarium hobbyists is "mineralized topsoil". This material is simple garden soil subjected to repeated wetting
and drying cycles in the warm sunshine, with the effect that all of its organic content becomes mineralized. The presumed advantage of this treatment
is that it will not begin to rot and spoil plant roots in wet, anoxic conditions as regular soil would. The nutrients are also more freely available to the
plant roots. I have tried this material a few times in combination with clay gravels and I also observed good results.

Cheers,

Devin

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