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 This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.

  Chaos in Monstera names
From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.06.25 at 17:12:47(17959)
Hello,

Can anyone authoritatively tell if:

M. friedrichsthalii = M. adansonii = M. pertusa

M. acuminata = M. karwinskyi

M. obliqua has no synonyms

Best
Marek

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From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org (Tom Croat) on 2008.06.27 at 20:52:43(17986)
Marek:

Monstera friedrichsthalii is a synonym of A. adansonii but
M. pertusa is not even a Monstera as I recall but rather a Rhapidophora
(Pete is this not correct?). M. karwinskyi is a synonym of M. acuminate,
not the other way around. M. obliqua has lots of synonyms. Madison
lists 7 including M. expilata Schott but I intend to resurrect the
latter.

Tom

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.06.28 at 09:16:21(17994)
Hi Marek, Tom, etc.

Sorry I did pick up on the Monstera thread a bit earlier. Tom is correct, M. pertusa is a Rhaphidophora (R. pertusa).

Rhaphidophora pertusa (Roxb.) Schott, Prodr. Syst. Aroid.: 382. 1860; Hook.f., Fl. Brit. India 6: 546. 1893. - Pothos pertusus Roxb., Fl. Ind. 1: 455. 1820. - Monstera pertusa (Roxb.) Schott, Wiener Z. Kunst 4: 1028. 1830. - Scindapsus pertusus (Roxb.) Schott in H.W.Schott & S.L.Endlicher, Melet. Bot.: 21. 1832. - Rhaphidophora lacera Hassk., Flora 25(2 Beibl.): 11. 1842, nom. illeg.

Very large, very robust, pachycaul, heterophyllous liane to 15 m or more. Stem robustly terete, 3-5 cm diam., Leaves dense along most of the stem except the oldest portion. Petiole shallowly canaliculate, 15-30 cm, pulvini indistinct; petiolar sheath extending 2/3 along the petiole, margins soon marcescent; lamina (juvenile) rotund, entire, apex abrupt acute, 13 ? 11 cm; (adult) oblong-ovate, ovate in outline, 20-50 ? 15-25 cm, irregularly and asymmetrically pinnately cut with the incisions c. ? way to the mid-rib and sometimes occurring as ovate, apex acute, base subcordate, pinnae 2-5 per side. Inflorescence solitary on tips of free lateral shoots. Peduncle cylindric, very robust,15-18 ? 1.5-2 cm. Spathe oblong-ovate, cymbiform, ca. 18 ? 8 cm, spreading at anthesis, thence falling, yellowish to somewhat pinkish tinged; spadix cylindric, ca. 10-12 ? 2-3 cm, base oblique, sessile, yellow. Fruit hexagonal-obconical, 18 ? 5 mm, green-white stylar region sloughing to reveal white or yellow pulp
cavity.

Distribution. - Sri Lanka, S. India through N.E. Himalaya to Bangladesh, Burma and N. Thailand

Pete

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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.06.28 at 13:45:58(17995)
Dear Tom and the masses,

Aloha.

On an earlier post, I said that Monstera pertusa was a valid name...that was based on the Tropicos listing. On the KEW monocot checklist, that name is considered Raphidophora pertusa. Monstera and Rhapidophora are genera that I would like to study in greater detail,however, access to vouchered and correctly curated living collections are limited.

Pete, are you familiar with Rhaphidophora pertusa? I mention this because there is the discussion that many of the so-called Monstera pertusa are really Rhaphidophora tetrasperma. Now, I noticed that the diatribution of Rhaphidophora tetrasperma and Rhapidophora pertusa are very distinct...the former from peninsular Thailand and peninsular Malaysia, and R. pertusa from southern India,Bangladesh,and Sri Lanka. Can you comment on this? Are they similar species...especially in the sterile state?

Thank you all.

Aloha,

Leland

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From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.06.28 at 15:12:25(17996)
________________________________
> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:52:43 -0500
> From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org
> To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names

Dear Tom and Friends,

I do think that "Monstera" pertusa is a species of Rahpidophora.
I recently ran into what I THINK may be this plant being used as an interior decorative planting in the large office of a landscape architect, and it initally ''threw me for a loop'', and I told the guy it was a small example of Monstera deliciosa. I then took a closer look, and I don`t believe that it was Monstera deliciosa. I think what it was is this Raphidophora sp. It could easily be mistaken for a Monstera species close to M. deliciosa.
Remember on this list, a while ago, it was mentioned that M. deliciosa actually existed in the wilds of coastal Mexico in two or more ''forms'', the giant one (of which all plants now in cultivation was from) was from just a few collections, and that in the wild a smaller, much commoner but recognisable form of this same species was the common plant one encountered?? I wonder if someone could confirm this story.
The Best,

Julius

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.06.29 at 06:22:17(17998)
Dear Leland,

Rhaphidophora tetrasperma and R. pertusa are distinct species, although they are related. In the same group are R. nicolsonii, R. glauca, R. luchunensis and perhaps R. corneri.

I posted a description for R. pertusa yesterday; here is the description for R. tetrasperma:

Rhaphidophora tetrasperma Hook.f., Fl. Brit. India 6 (1893) 548; Ridl., Mat. Fl.Malay Penins. 3 (1907) 44--45; Engl. & K. Krause in Engl., Pflanzenr. 37 (IV.23B) (1908) 48; Ridl., Fl. Malay Penins. 5 (1925) 124 - Type: Malaysia, Perak, Scortechini 169b (K, holo).

Distribution: Peninsular Malaysia (Kelantan, Perak), southern Thailand

Small to medium-sized, rather slender, semi-pachycaul, heterophyllous liane to 5 m; seedling stage a non-skototropic shingling juvenile shoot; pre-adult plants very rarely forming terrestrial colonies; adult shoot architecture comprised of elongated, weakly clinging, physiognomically monopodial, flexuous, moderately leafy, non-flowering stems and weakly adherent or, more commonly, free lateral flowering stems; stems smooth, without prophyll, cataphyll and petiolar sheath fibre, internodes to 14 x 1 cm, separated by prominent straight leaf scars; flagellate foraging stems not observed; clasping roots sparsely produced from nodes and internodes; feeding roots stout, produced singly or in pairs from most nodes of free shoots; leaves weakly spiral-distichous; cataphylls and prophylls membranous, soon drying and falling; petiole shallowly grooved, 10--34 x 0.2--0.4 cm, smooth, apical and basal genicula slightly prominent; petiolar sheath prominent, extending to base of apical geniculum, soon falling to leave a pr
ominent, slightly corky scar; lamina sparsely to + entirely deeply pinnatipartite to nearly pinnatisect, occasionally with large rhombic perforations adjacent to mid-rib, 12--42 x 9.5--38 cm, broadly ovate to ovate-lanceolate, thinly coriaceous, base truncate or very weakly cordate, apex acute to acuminate, individual pinnae up to 6 cm wide; mid-rib prominently raised abaxially, slightly sunken adaxially; primary venation pinnate, raised abaxially, slightly impressed adaxially; interprimaries diverging from primaries, much less prominent, slightly raised abaxially, very slightly impressed adaxially; secondary venation weakly reticulate, very slightly raised; tertiary venation barely visible; inflorescence few together, subtended by two prominent cataphylls, these soon falling; peduncle terete, 2--2.5 x 0.3--0.4 cm; spathe canoe-shaped, 3--3.5 x 0.8--1.5 cm, stiffly fleshy, apparently falling swiftly, white with adherent black cataphyll remnants; spadix cylindrical, sessile, inserted slightly decurrently on p
eduncle, 3--3.5 x 0.75 - 1 cm, white; stylar region well developed, mostly rhombohexagonal, c. 2 x 2 mm, truncate, margins deflexed; stigma elliptic, longitudinally orientated, c. 1 x 0.2 mm; anthers exserted at anthesis; infructescence not observed.

Habitat: Disturbed rather dry to moist or wet forest on sandstone and granite. 190--760 m altitude.

Pete

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From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.06.29 at 21:10:32(18006)
Thanks Pete,

I asked about this because many websites present photos of Monstera deliciosa 'Borsigiana' as "Monstera pertusa" or even "Philodendron pertusum".

Marek

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From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.06.29 at 21:29:10(18007)
Hello all,

In the Tropicos Database you can find all synonyms, even so much outdated
like Arum macrorrhizos or Calla aethiopica.
They do not differentiate which one are true synonyms and which are old
names.

Marek

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From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org (Tom Croat) on 2008.06.30 at 19:14:53(18020)
Dear Pete:

I thought so and am glad that I was not just passing on nonsense. I am glad that I was remembering correctly.

Tom

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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.06.30 at 19:42:43(18021)
Dear Pete,

Aloha and mahalo for posting these descriptions. It will be very helpful toward straightening out the questions surrounding the so-called dwarf Monstera varieties in cultivation.

Now, are you familiar with any ex-situ collections that have vouchered living plants of both of these species to compare? From the descriptions, it appears that the so-called Monstera pertusa are all Rhaphidophora tetrasperma...not Rhaphidophora pertusa...at least the ones I have seen. I am not familiar with the other Rhaphidophora you listed, so I cannot make a judgement as to the similarity, or not, of these species to the dwarf plants in question. Can any of these be confused with Rhaphidophora tetrasperma in the sterile condition?

Aloha,

Leland

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From: gartenbaureisenberger at web.de (Helmut Reisenberger) on 2008.06.30 at 22:55:26(18023)
Hi Peter,

This meal sounds familiar to me. We should meet at the bridge over the Skrang River, take a longboat up the river and then a six days walk to see friends in the longhouses on the way. Together with the Iban we should also try some some tree fruit (maybe also some so far unknown aroid fruits), which you only could find in a circle of twenty miles. I am sure, there is still a lot of hidden "jewels" to be found in the undergrowth. What a challange! See you in Kushing soon!
Helmut

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.01 at 02:48:27(18025)
Hi Marek,

Your email prompted me to take a look on the web. I am amazed that I was unable to find an image of R. pertusa that was correctly named. I have slides (transparencies) I took in Bangladesh of this and R. glauca (the probable closest allie). I will try to get them scanned and posted.

Have to say I was rather depressed by the quality of naming on the web in general; even really common species posted with completely wrong or, worse, fictitious, names...

Pete

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.01 at 07:06:04(18028)
Hi Leyland,

Rhaphidophora tetrasperma really is distinct in the straggling habit, the
single roots arising from each node and the very uniform leaves.
Rhaphidophora glauca is different in the climbing habit and in having the
backs of the leaves glaucous (white-waxy-powdery). Rhaphidophora lucunensis
is distinct in having leaves with splits and holes while R. corneri has
leaves with so many holes as to appear like a lace napkin but no splits. All
are small species. Rhaphidophora pertusa has leaves a little like
R.luchunensis but is HUGE in all its parts. Spathes of R. luchunensis and
glauca are yellow; those of R. corneri creamy white and those of R.
tetrasperma white. Spathes of R. pertusa are pale orange.

Also in this group is R. nicolsonii, another giant, with perforated and
split leaves. Spathes are white.

I have collected all of these (and a few more) in the field and can tell
them apart quite easily.

You are perfectly correct to say that most plants in cultivation labelled as
R. pertusa are actually R. tetrasperma. In fact, I have very seldom seen
true R. pertusa cultivated and never seen it in European or US collections.

Very best

Pete

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From: leu242 at yahoo.com (Eric Schmidt) on 2008.07.01 at 13:32:33(18030)
Is this Rhaphidophora tetrasperma?

http://photobucket.com/image/monstera/Leu51/Vines/5809.jpg

Eric

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From: TheTropix at msn.com (Sherry Gates) on 2008.07.01 at 16:12:32(18031)
Hi Eric and all the gang,
I'm not about to even try to pretend to be any sort of expert, the plant pictured is what I have tagged as R. tetrasperma in the greenhouse.
My best to everyone,
Sherry
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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.01 at 16:41:10(18033)
Dear Eric,

Aloha...good to hear from you.

Peter Boyce is the man to confirm this. I consider this plant as Rhahidophora tetrasperma, thanks to all of Pete's recent postings. From this photo, it appears that there is only one root per node.

Sounds as if Leu Gardens, or others, need to collect the other species of Rhaphidophora...all the allied species appear to be attractive and distinct, according to Pete's excellent descriptions.

Aloha,

Leland

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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.01 at 16:47:29(18034)
Dear Pete,

Aloha and mahalo once again for the excellent help.

My Pavlovian responses are triggered by your offers of good food, drink, and company. Throw in a marvelous natural setting and longboats...all great temptations.

Thank you again.

Aloha,

Leland

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From: harrywitmore at witmore.net (Harry Witmore) on 2008.07.01 at 16:50:01(18035)
Looks like what I have as R tetrasperma. I also have this species and I
think it is a Rhaphidophora but I'm not sure.

http://www.cloudjungle.com/CloudJungle/Araceae/Unknown/AroidNoid.jpg

Any ideas?

Harry Witmore

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From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.07.01 at 18:50:51(18037)
Yes, it is. Rh. tetrasperma has deeper 2nd row veins, and usually 3 lobes
(Monstera 'Borsigiana'can have more) very deeply cut.
For comparison here's a page on Monstera deliciosa 'Borsigiana'
http://www.wschowa.com/abrimaal/araceum/monstera/pertusa.htm
(I thought it was M. pertusa that's why this deceiving filename, sorry, I
must change this.)

Marek

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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.01 at 19:06:35(18038)
Dear Tom and Pete,

Aloha.

I do not want to create more chaos here,but, via my wife's email, I will send you photos of a Monstera? that superficially looks like M. deliciosa, but has blades only a third the size. The photos are of a clump many years old and there are three or so roots per node. I have never seen this in bloom...but, I'll keep an eye open for them now. I have some sort of default on my server, so could you post these photos on Aroid-l. My hand is holding a leaf and from fingertip to palm is about 6 inches.

Aloha,

Leland

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.01 at 22:24:01(18040)
Hi Eric,

Yes, this is Rhaphidophora tetrasperma.

I am off for a few days to do some Flora Thailand editing in Bangkok; will
be accessing aroid-l again late Saturday.

Pete

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From: chammer at cfl.rr.com (Bluesea) on 2008.07.02 at 06:15:44(18042)
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From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.07.02 at 09:56:59(18043)
----------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 12:06:35 -0700
> From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com
> To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names

Dear Leland and Aroid Friends,

Aloha.
Though I have not seen the photo as yet, this smaller selection/clone of Monstera deliciosa ''ties in'' to my memory of the discussion we had on this forum some time ago. I believe Tom had said something along the lines that the large form of M. deliciosa were ALL from a single or a very few collections, as it (the larger variety/species was rare in the wild, but a simular or the SAME species, but in a smaller form was much more common in dry areas of Mexico? The large var./form was a selection (I suspect) based on the edibility of its larger fruit?
I hope this helps.

Aloha.

Julius

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From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com (RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com) on 2008.07.02 at 13:43:27(18046)
In a message dated 7/2/2008 2:17:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
harrywitmore at witmore.net writes:
> http://www.cloudjungle.com/CloudJungle/Araceae/Unknown/AroidNoid.jpg
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From: chammer at cfl.rr.com (Bluesea) on 2008.07.02 at 16:09:54(18048)
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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.02 at 17:00:56(18050)
Dear Julius, Marek, and all,

Aloha.

This explains a good deal. Marek just posted his photos of Monstera deliciosa 'Borsigiana'( is this nomenclature technically correct?) that matches well with the plants I posted to Tom and Pete...a smaller variety of Monstera deliciosa. I have never seen these in fruit, but I will be on the lookout for inflorescences and other diagnostic details.

I have a good grasp of Rhaphidophora tetrasperma in the vegetative state...now to see the inflorescences. Thanks to Pete, the descriptions are a great reference. At the end of this thread, we should have a little summary...just to clarify the collective findings.

Aloha,

Leland

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From: leu242 at yahoo.com (Eric Schmidt) on 2008.07.02 at 17:30:29(18051)
Thanks everyone, I've changed the labels.

I remember the discussion awhile back about the big
and small leaf forms of Monstera deliciosa. We have
both growing up our trees. Here is a photo I took of
the different leaves. The small one on the left is the
Rhaphidophora tetrasperma.

http://photobucket.com/image/monstera/Leu51/Aroids/7017.jpg

Eric

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From: hluther at selby.org (Harry Luther) on 2008.07.02 at 18:10:48(18052)
In 1986 I saw but did not collect Monstera deliciosa in forest on Cerro Colorado, Chiriqui/Bocas del Toro prov., Panama. It appeared normal and uninteresting compared to some spectacular broms. HEL

-----Original Message-----
From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com

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From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.07.02 at 19:10:38(18054)
This is also a Rhaphidophora. (Note the deep 2nd veins)

Marek

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From: harrywitmore at witmore.net (Harry Witmore) on 2008.07.02 at 23:46:49(18056)
I also have cuttings of this for postage if anyone wants it. You can kill
this one from my experience. It grows in wet or dry conditions with little
or almost no care. I have had one growing from a mounted Platycerium for
years.

Harry Witmore

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From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com (RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com) on 2008.07.03 at 02:07:43(18058)
I agree Russ, it is SLOW. There is a tree on Longboat Key near Sarasota FL
covered in R. decursiva. It's awesome but I can only imagine how long it
took to get that way!

Michael Mattlage

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From: gartenbaureisenberger at web.de (Helmut Reisenberger) on 2008.07.03 at 23:50:17(18063)
Hi Harry, Hi Marek,

the photo definitl. shows a juvenile Rhaphidophora decursiva, a very fast and wild grower, if not tamed with very long internodes. The adult plant makes huge, split leaves up to two meters long and 90 cm wide. We have a great species in the HBV (Botanical Garden of the Vienna University), clinging up a seven meters concrete
wall. Very stunning!!!

Helmut

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.05 at 08:45:25(18078)
This is definitely R. decursiva; the resaon you are finding it slow is that you are growing it too hot; it's a montane species and when cool is very fast and can get VERY large...

Pete

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.05 at 08:46:54(18079)
Hi Harry,

This is Rhaphidophora decursiva, one of the largest growing species. I have
seen it in Vietnam with leaves 1.5 x 0.5 m and climbing to 50 m on a
limestone cliff.

It needs to ne grwon cool and shady.

Pete

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.05 at 09:28:23(18080)
Hi Eric,

Yes, this is R. tetrasperma.

very best

Pete

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From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.07.05 at 13:35:02(18081)
----------------------------------------
> From: abri1973 at wp.pl
> To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 20:50:51 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Chaos in Monstera names

Dear Monstera fans,

Marek`s page (see link below) illustrates what I believe are the two forms/vars./clones of Monstera deliciosa.
How I wish someone (Tom??) would give us a definitive answer to the question constantly being presented---does M. deliciosa actually occur in two forms, the BIG var. , and a SECOND smaller, more vineing var. pictured in the web page posted by Marek (below). This seemingly smaller var. or clone is refered to as M. deliciosa "Borsigiana", which does NOT look like a Raphidophora sp.
Leyland in Hawaii has asked for clarification (he reports that he has a large colony of this smaller var./clone!), Harry at Selby has reported that he observed what he said was the BIG clone/var. in the wilds in Mexico---so we are left wondering if this smaller var./clone might be just a juvinile plant of the larger form, or another and much smaller var./clone of the same species! I guess we shall wait till Leland or someone else who has an old, established plant of the SMALLER plant sees it bloom!
The larger var. clone certainly is a heavy bloomer, my plant of this in my front yard which I grew from seed collected in a fruit at the late Jim Enck`s home blooms and produces fruit every year.
While I am pondering this aroid, let me pose a question which has thus far eluded anyone answering or suggesting a soloution. Monstera deliciosa was so named because it (at least the large clone) produces wonderfully fragrant and edible fruit. (do NOT attempt to eat this fruit unless you know what you are doing! Serious itching of the mouth can result). These fruit look like a huge banana, and consist of a LOT of flesh and just a few BIG seeds well ''hidden'' in this delicious flesh/fruit. I have thought about if perhaps this almost complete lack of seeds amongst the flesh was bacause of selection by ancient man, as it would not appear to favor a species of plant into producing a huge fruit with just a few or no seeds (unless it evolved in Mexico to be swallowed whole by one of the now extinct members of the tapir family, or even one of the extinct large mammals belonging to the also extinct ''megafauna'' which existed in that area up to around, I believe, 15,000 years ago.
Along these same ''non-seeded' lines of discussion--Think about the banana and breadfruit, both are select clones of seeded species, and both plants produce fruit without seeds, but they can not reproduce sexually, and generally speaking depend on man to multiply them by division of rhizomes in the case of bananas, or root offshoots of branch cuttings in the case of breadfruit. By the way, both bananas AND breadfruit exist with seeded forms. In bananas, the seeded plant is used as the female parent, and is hand-pollinated by a seedless plant's pollen to produce new seedless varieties. I believe that in breadfruit all seedles varieties are from chance finds/selections by man from amongst the different varieties, I am not aware if any breeding ever took place using the pollen from the seedless trees to hand-pollinate the seeded fruit-bearing trees.
Food for thought, eh??
Thanks to Marek, Harry, Leyland and everyone else who have added their information, photos and opinions to the discussion on Monstera deliciosa and other Monstera species!

Good Growing,

Julius

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From: harrywitmore at witmore.net (Harry Witmore) on 2008.07.05 at 18:05:26(18082)
Pete. That explains why it seems to grow best for me in the winter. It's
very easy to grow for me if left under the benches.

Harry Witmore

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From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com (RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com) on 2008.07.06 at 04:38:06(18087)
Pete, at what elevation does R. decursiva grow in Vietnam?

Thanks,
Michael Mattlage

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From: chammer at cfl.rr.com (Bluesea) on 2008.07.06 at 14:31:53(18088)
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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.06 at 19:02:11(18089)
Dear Maestros of Monstera,

Aloha.

If any of you all wish to eat a Monstera deliciosa fruit, this is the trick. Pick or buy a mature fruit. It should be green and firm and there should be a slight separation between the scales near the peduncle. Wrap the fruit in a brown paper bag or aluminum foil. Do not attempt to eat it until the little green plates or scales of the rind begin to fall off. When the remaining plates are very easy to remove, it can be eaten. The inedible core should just pull away. Some people are sensitive to the calcium oxalate, even in fully ripe fruit. If you have never eaten Monstera deliciosa or are sensitive...caution is advised.

Julius, I do think about the Pleistocene megafauna and the Quaternary extinctions. If there are well preserved fossils within the distributional range of Monstera deliciosa, stable isotope analysis can tell what the animal ate. Tapirs are monogastric browers, so they are good candidates. I thought about extinct ground sloths...but their modern counterparts have such a slow metabolism, could the seeds pass through unscathed? Sloths only defecate once a week. Ruminants would destroy seed and other ungulates...horses, etc. are grazers. Other megafauna herbivores are mammoths, mastodons, camels, peccaries,various Rodentia...I do not know the bird fauna well.

Botanist Joel Lau is studying Hawaiian banana varieties, I can ask him if he has information on the loss of seeds over time. Dr. Diane Ragone is the director of the Breadfruit Institute which has 200+ accessions of breadfruit. She is doing molecular work on the taxonomic relationships and I can ask her if she knows about the loss of seed in breadfruit. Yes, Julius...you always give us food for thought.

Aloha,

Leland

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.06 at 21:31:59(18091)
Hi Mike, 750 m + (ca 2400 ft +); in N Thailand a little higher (800 m +)

Very best

Pete

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From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.06 at 21:46:54(18092)
Harry,

In the wild R. decursiva grows in very shady, perhumind forest in deep
valleys or on the northern exposure of mountains or north-facing cliffs. As
I mentioned in an earlir posting it can get VERY large and along with R.
megaphylla and R.eximia is probably among the largest of all linanescet
aroids.

Pete

+More
From: leu242 at yahoo.com (Eric Schmidt) on 2008.07.07 at 20:43:25(18101)
Russ,

It grows fine here. It is slower than say Monstera but
not snail slow. It is a bit more tender, it shows
foliar burn in the mid 30sF.

http://tinyurl.com/6qcrah

Eric

+More
From: chammer at cfl.rr.com (Bluesea) on 2008.07.08 at 03:17:24(18109)
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