From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of ExoticRainforest
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 20098:18 AM
To: Discussion of aroids
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] AlocasiaAmazonica and Alocasia x Amazonica
I've been told my "database" of botanistsmay have given me the wrong name. There are apparently two French botanists known asAndré, Edouard F André (1840-1911) and his son René Edouard André (1867-1942).
Can anyone confirm if one of these is the André inquestion?
Steve
ExoticRainforest wrote:
This one is going to be long guys and gals so pleasestay with me!. Since many of you are growing this plant you may find thisinteresting.
I am seeking the assistance of any and all the botanists and/or experts on thisforum since I've uncovered an apparent new mystery and can't seem to reach aresolution.
Although at least one plant seller on the internet advertises "Straightfrom the Rainforest to Your Home" while offering Alocasia Amazonica forsale this plant has never existed naturally in any rain forests of the world.It is very well known this plant is a hybrid but the actual parentage has beendebated. Alocasia Amazonica is likely a hybrid of Alocasia watsoniana x Alocasia sanderiana but other crossesincluding Alocasia watsoniana x Alocasia nobilis have produced similarresults. Other sources have stated other parentage is involved so I'm not surewhat the real parentage may have been, I only know it did not come fromnature.
The plant is sometimes known by the common names African Mask, Green Velvet,Jewel Alocasia, Alocasia Polly, or Alocasia Alligator and commercial growershave sold it as Alocasia Frydek and as Alocasia Maxkowskii.
Botanical gardens rarely list hybrid plants on their website but if you do aninternet search you will find the National Botanic Garden of Belgium plus some "official" sources including the University of Connecticutand the USDA list the plant asAlocasia x Amazonica André. Unless I've got my facts totallywrong "André" refers to botanist André Michaux who lived from 1746 to1802.
Since AlocasiaAmazonica is not a species and at least the plant we know by the name AlocasiaAmazonica today wasn't even hybridized until the 1930's are they talking aboutthe same plant? How could it be the same hybrid if botanist André Michauxwrote about it before his death in 1802?
Now, for some background for those on the forum that don't normally dig intothis kind of "plant mystery":
Alocasia Amazonica is not a species and has never been described toscience It does not grow naturally in any native rain forest,is not fromthe Amazon. The name should never be used in either the italicized formor with single quotations since it is neither a published species nor aregistered cultivar. With the help of John Banta our friend author and expertJulius Boos was able to trace the hybrid to a nursery owner who during the1930's and 1940's owned a now defunct nursery in the Miami. The nursery was known as the"Amazon Nursery" and the grower is said to have named AlocasiaAmazonica after his own business. The name has since been used by growers forover 70 years.
Just in case you are confused, Alocasiaspecies are all naturally found in the geographical region composed ofSoutheast Asia and neighboring island nations of the Pacific Ocean includingthe Philippines.No Alocasia species has ever beenfound naturally in Central or South Americaincluding the Amazon basin although species have been imported as well as setfree and now thrive in the area.
Just in case one of our members believes Alocasia Amazonica is a species hereare three scientific data bases. You won't find Alocasia Amazonica onany.
The Royal Botanic Garden Kew, London:http://www.ipni.org/index.htmlThe Missouri Botanical Garden: http://www.tropicos.org/ WorldChecklist of Selected Plant Families: http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/qsearch.do
Still, it is listed on the National Botanic Garden of Belgium website: http://www.br.fgov.be/RESEARCH/COLLECTIONS/LIVING/LIVCOL/list/l_113.html
and credited to André. Some experts believe the plant did not originate in Miamiand likely was originally bred in Belgium,France or England sinceit is mentioned in Burnetts 'Cultivated Alocasia'. I don't have access tothat publication so I can't check out the sources. If it was hybridizedin Europe, who did it? When? Was André Michaux involved? Did hewrite about it? If so, where are his papers and more importantly, is itthe same plant we grow?
Are we talking about the same hybrid or was there a plant hybridized before1800 in England, France or Belgiumthat also used the name Alocasia x Amazonica which was copied by the grower in Miami?
I can normally figure these "mysteries" out with the help of Julius,Leland, Tom and Pete as well as some of our other esteemed botanists but thisone has me stumped. Josef, David, Wilbert and Simon, since you are in Europe do you know anything about this? I'd reallylike to understand where the name originated and if we are talking about thesame plant that is commonly tissue cultured and grown today.
Thanks!
Steve
www.ExoticRainforest.com
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