----- Original Message -----
From: "brian lee"
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] ubba dubba reticulata
> Dear Derek,
>
> Aloha.
>
> I am sorry...please understand that I am a high tech ignoramus and online
> neophyte. I am willing to learn. Also undertand that the system in my
> neighborhood is still on a rotary phone system. I will change subjects as
> our tangential subject switching demands...but, please jump in if we get
> carried away. I assumed I could not change the subject line in this
> forum...live and learn.
>
> Aloha,
>
> Leland
>
>
> --- On Wed, 7/16/08, derek burch wrote:
>
>> From: derek burch
>> Subject: [Aroid-l] ubba dubba reticulata
>> To: "'Discussion of aroids'"
>> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 1:57 AM
>> Dear Pete and Leland and everyone.
>>
>>
>>
>> PLEASE don't just click 'Reply" without
>> changing the subject line when the
>> topic of your email has changed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am interested in alocasias, I am interested in the
>> alpha-taxonomist
>> drought, but I should like to be able to open the emails
>> that refer to a
>> topic without having to take a lucky dip into what finally
>> amounts to an
>> email morass. At the moment it is a bit like my filing
>> system in my office
>> where everything goes into one file labeled "A" -
>> that includes 'A letter',
>> 'A reply' and so on. Very quick and easy. I do also
>> have an "An" file where
>> I put 'An invoice'
>>
>> , An unpaid account'.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I digress .
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards, to all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Derek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com
>> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com]
>> On Behalf Of Peter Boyce
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:12 PM
>> To: Discussion of aroids
>> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Leland,
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, where I live unless there is a change in education
>> policy to imbue
>> those few (and it is FEW) students with some botanical
>> aptitude, to gain
>> knowledge of the basic building blocks of botany, notably
>> comparative
>> morphology ecology & geomorphology, the spectre of no
>> wide-experience field
>> botanists, already a fact in many parts of Asia, will
>> become a region-wide
>> problem. In fact the whole of taxonomy, let alone
>> systematics, is in danger
>> of slipping off the curriculum in universities throughout
>> the region such
>> that only the minute hard-core (essentially botanically
>> hard-wired) folks
>> will make it through and continue. The problem then will be
>> that there are
>> increasingly fewer jobs that call for taxonomic expertise
>> such that those
>> few that wish to remain in the field usually end up earning
>> a living doing
>> something at the best only tangentially associated with
>> their passion. Of
>> course the irony is that there has never been a greater
>> need for taxonomic
>> expertise in order to make the rational decisions required
>> to protect the
>> remaining tropical habitats.
>>
>>
>>
>> Curiously, I am not anywhere near as doubtful or indeed
>> pessimistic about
>> the increasing use of molecular data and also don't
>> altogether agree with
>> the total genome argument. Regarding the function of
>> various parts of the
>> molecular code, in recent years there has been made
>> enormous strides in
>> understanding what various coding regions 'do' such
>> that the link with this
>> and evo-devo is now a well established area of scientific
>> exploration. Of
>> course some of these areas are ferociously expensive but
>> with molecular
>> extraction methodologies and analyses programmes
>> increasingly simplified
>> costs are dropping such that basic extraction and
>> methodologies are well
>> within the budget of even quite modest research
>> establishments.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding the usefulness of molecular data, especially
>> vis-a-vis the ability
>> of the molecular practitioners to actual identify the
>> organisms they are
>> studying, yes, I agree, that still far too many molecular
>> research outputs
>> are the product of lab rats without any practical field
>> training and worse
>> are oftentimes undertaken without or with only minimal
>> taxonomic cross
>> fertilization. However, that situation is fast becoming
>> history as more and
>> more multi-author research outputs based on sound
>> alpha-taxonomy, with the
>> molecular toolbox being opened only once a decent
>> 'traditional' taxonomy is
>> established and is testable. This is much the approach we
>> are using, with a
>> multi-stranded project that is investigating alpha-tax. and
>> then
>> phylogentics and then using the phylogenies to investigate
>> spatial
>> evolution, etc. We have been very fotunate to find good
>> students who are
>> willing to spend the necessary field time as part of their
>> molecular-based
>> research and as a result have a much more complete
>> biological reserach
>> toolbox.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The main problem here
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "brian lee" <
>> lbmkjm at yahoo.com>
>>
>> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
>>
>> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:45 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dear Pete,
>> >
>> > Aloha.
>> >
>> > What a shame. What will happen when there are no
>> field botanists with the
>> knowledge to recognize species in habitat? I have taken
>> young molecular
>> taxonomists into the field and some of them really have no
>> clue what they
>> are looking at until you tell them. At this rate, there
>> will come a time
>> when no field botanists will be able to lead them to their
>> samples...which
>> they send off to distant labs to analyze the relationships.
>> >
>> > The other problematic issue I see is that whole
>> genomes are not analyzed,
>> only sections that are not necessarily associated with
>> known
>> characteristics. I see a great need for traditional
>> botany...but the lure
>> of molecular biology is hooking most of the young fish
>> these days. One day
>> I see entire genomes of all plants being sequenced...which
>> is a good thing
>> in the long run. There will always be a great need for
>> morphologists in the
>> field, however...in my humble opinion...until all the
>> plants are located on
>> GPS and barcoded and linked to the great databases they
>> envision. Who will
>> control this information?
>> >
>> > In the meantime,I hope the horticulturists out there
>> report their
>> observations. Unfortunately, most of these plants are not
>> associated with
>> good locality data... It will serve as a survey of
>> variation,however.
>> >
>> > Aloha,
>> >
>> > Leland
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Peter Boyce <
>>
>> botanist at malesiana.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Peter Boyce <
>>
>> botanist at malesiana.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
>> >> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
>>
>> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
>> >> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 10:32 PM
>> >> Hi Leland,
>> >>
>> >> I was more thinking along the lines that the
>> numerous folks
>> >> who grow
>> >> Alocasia zebrina might pitch in with observations
>> on the
>> >> different
>> >> menifestation that this species takes in
>> cultivation.
>> >>
>> >> The Flora of the Philippines project is stll
>> active but is
>> >> suffering from
>> >> the same problem besetting several similar
>> projects in
>> >> Asia, that of a
>> >> dearth of botanists tackling alpha-taxonomy and
>> the almost
>> >> universal problem
>> >> that so few students are coming into field-work
>> based
>> >> botany once they leave
>> >> university such that as the few remaining active
>> >> field-taxonomists/systematits become fewer still
>> there are
>> >> a
>> >> disproportionately small number of young bloods
>> entering
>> >> the career.
>> >>
>> >> Pete
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "brian lee" <
>> lbmkjm at yahoo.com>
>> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
>> >> <
>> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:17 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Dear Pete,
>> >> >
>> >> > Aloha.
>> >> >
>> >> > It is hard to comment on issues that some of
>> us have
>> >> no knowledge on.
>> >> > That is not to say we do not have an
>> obsessive desire
>> >> for knowledge. We
>> >> > wait on bated breath for tidbits of treasure
>> from you.
>> >> >
>> >> > The Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum used to
>> participate
>> >> in a program called,
>> >> > the Philippine Flora Project that was to
>> catalog as
>> >> many of the in-situ
>> >> > plants remaining in the archipelago...which
>> was being
>> >> destroyed at a pace
>> >> > and scale that would see many habitats
>> extirpated. I
>> >> do not recall the
>> >> > percentage of the destruction, but it was a
>> >> significant proportion. My
>> >> > point here is that if habitats are destroyed,
>> it will
>> >> be impossible to
>> >> > reconstruct some of these interesting pearls
>> of
>> >> information we all desire.
>> >> > I can ask Clyde Imada if Alocasia species
>> were
>> >> catalogued in this
>> >> > program...hopefully your contact will respond
>> with a
>> >> wealth of new
>> >> > information to enlighten the darkness. I am
>> >> optimistic that Melanie will
>> >> > answer the call.
>> >> >
>> >> > Aloha,
>> >> >
>> >> > Leland
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Peter Boyce
>> >> <
>> botanist at malesiana.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> From: Peter Boyce <
>>
>> botanist at malesiana.com>
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
>> reticulata
>> >> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
>> >> <
>> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
>> >> >> Cc: "Melanie P. Medecilo -
>> hotmail"
>> >> <
>> mmedecilo at hotmail.com>
>> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 11:45 AM
>> >> >> Hi Denis,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am quite surprised that no one has
>> picked up on
>> >> the last
>> >> >> comment in your
>> >> >> posting regarding the status of A.
>> zebrina in
>> >> cultivation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As you know, Alistair Hay in his
>> herbarium-based
>> >> account of
>> >> >> Philippines'
>> >> >> Alocasia (Gardens' Bulletin Singapore
>> 51: 1-41
>> >> (1999))
>> >> >> treated A. zebrina as
>> >> >> a variable species and included under
>> that name A.
>> >> >> wenzelii. He made no
>> >> >> mention of the name A. tigrina (or A.
>> zebrina
>> >> tigrina) as
>> >> >> this name and any
>> >> >> combination thereof has never been
>> formally
>> >> published and
>> >> >> thus from a strict
>> >> >> botanical standpoint dos not exist.
>> Goerverts et
>> >> al.
>> >> >> include a further name
>> >> >> as a provisional syn. (A. liervalii) but
>> without
>> >> further
>> >> >> discussion.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Not withstanding the strict application
>> of
>> >> application of
>> >> >> published names,
>> >> >> it is clear to anyone who grows A.
>> zebrina that
>> >> there are
>> >> >> several
>> >> >> conspicuously different (but likewise
>> clearly
>> >> allied)
>> >> >> entities in
>> >> >> cultivation, among which the form with
>> reticulated
>> >> venation
>> >> >> is particularly
>> >> >> striking. What of course is needed is a
>> >> comprehensive field
>> >> >> study to try to
>> >> >> untangle these cultivated clones and see
>> where
>> >> they may
>> >> >> have originated. For
>> >> >> that reason I have ccd this aroid-l
>> posting to
>> >> Melanie
>> >> >> Medecilo in the
>> >> >> Philippines; Melanie is currently working
>> on
>> >> >> Philippines' Alocasia and if
>> >> >> anyone is able to shed some light on the
>> status of
>> >> the
>> >> >> various clones of A.
>> >> >> zebrina she can.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Very best
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Peter
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "Denis" <
>> denis at skg.com>
>> >> >> To: "'Discussion of
>> aroids'"
>> >> >> <
>>
>> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
>> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:23 AM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
>> reticulata
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina
>> 'reticulata' was
>> >> subsequently
>> >> >> tissue cultured by
>> >> >> > Oglesby Plant Labs in the 1980's
>> to
>> >> satisfy the
>> >> >> small collector's market
>> >> >> > for this unusual plant. Only about
>> 1,000 to
>> >> 1,500
>> >> >> plants were produced
>> >> >> > at that time. You might could ask
>> Plantsman
>> >> Jim
>> >> >> Georgusis who currently
>> >> >> > is working at Oglesby Plants if he
>> knows
>> >> anymore about
>> >> >> the origins of
>> >> >> > this cultivar. I think he worked at
>> Fantastic
>> >> Gardens
>> >> >> in the 1970's.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The plant is currently being
>> produced in
>> >> Tissue
>> >> >> Culture at Agristarts,
>> >> >> > Inc. in Apopka Florida.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The question is still open as to
>> whether or
>> >> not
>> >> >> Alocasia zebrina is true
>> >> >> > species described in the literature
>> somewhere
>> >> or just
>> >> >> a sub variety of
>> >> >> > Alocasia tigrina group.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Denis
>> >> >> > Silver Krome Gardens, Inc.
>> >> >> > Homestead Florida
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> > From:
>>
>> aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com
>> >> >> >
>> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On
>> >> Behalf Of
>> >> >> Harry Luther
>> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:05
>> PM
>> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
>> zebrina
>> >> reticulata
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I believe that I first saw an
>> Alocasia
>> >> >> "reticulata" at Fantastic
>> Gardens
>> >> >> > in Miami in the summer of 1976 in
>> their
>> >> private, keep
>> >> >> out stock house.
>> >> >> > This was when the Mentelos family
>> had the
>> >> nursery. My
>> >> >> memory may be off
>> >> >> > a bit as its filled with bromeliad
>> stuff.
>> >> HEL
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> > From:
>>
>> aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com
>> >> >> >
>> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com]On
>> >> Behalf Of
>> >> >> brian lee
>> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:27
>> PM
>> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
>> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
>> zebrina
>> >> reticulata
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Dear Enid,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Aloha.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > About 1986, Roberto Burle-Marx,
>> Betty Ho,
>> >> Robert
>> >> >> Hirano, and I went to
>> >> >> > the Philippines. Corazon Aquino
>> just became
>> >> >> President, and it was a
>> >> >> > wild time. Our host, Ronnie Lane
>> was
>> >> murdered a week
>> >> >> before our trip
>> >> >> > and our new host was Dr. Vic Santos.
>> There is
>> >> an
>> >> >> Alocasia 'Vic Santos'
>> >> >> > that we brought in for the first
>> time. Vic
>> >> made sure
>> >> >> that we got all
>> >> >> > sorts of Philippine plants,
>> including many
>> >> Alocasia
>> >> >> species...including
>> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina and several forms.
>> Soon
>> >> after our
>> >> >> trip, Vic was
>> >> >> > murdered at his farm. I do not know
>> much
>> >> about
>> >> >> Alocasia, but Bob Hirano
>> >> >> > does. Bob's collections are
>> maintained
>> >> at Lyon
>> >> >> Arboretum and they will
>> >> >> > have records of all that was
>> collected. Bob
>> >> has
>> >> >> retired and his eyes
>> >> >> > were messed up in a botched
>> operation. If
>> >> this forum
>> >> >> does not come up
>> >> >> > with an answer for you, I can
>> contact Ray
>> >> Baker at the
>> >> >> Arboretum and he
>> >> >> > may have some information on their
>> BG-base
>> >> data
>> >> >> system. Another source
>> >> >> > of information may be at the Bernice
>> Pauahi
>> >> Bishop
>> >> >> Museum. They were
>> >> >> > involved in the Philippine Flora
>> Project and
>> >> I can
>> >> >> contact Clyde Imada
>> >> >> > to see if they have any records in
>> >> conjunction with
>> >> >> this program.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I look forward to seeing what this
>> thread
>> >> reveals.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Aloha,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Leland
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Enid
>> >> <
>> enigo at bellsouth.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> From: Enid <
>> enigo at bellsouth.net>
>> >> >> >> Subject: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
>> zebrina
>> >> reticulata
>> >> >> >> To:
>>
>> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
>> >> >> >> Date: Friday, June 20, 2008,
>> 4:55 PM
>> >> >> >> OK, does anyone out there know
>> where
>> >> Alocasia
>> >> >> zebrina reticulata
>> >> >> >> originally came from? Is it a
>> proper
>> >> species or a
>> >> >> mutant?
>> >> >> >> Enid
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Natural Selections Exotics
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> www.NSExotics.com_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
>> >> >> >>
>>
>> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> >
>> >>
>>
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>> >> >> >
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>> >> >> >
>> >>
>>
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>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
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>>
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
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>
>
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