Re: [Aroid-l] Re: Arlan`s Philo. adamantinum

From: a san juan <kalim1998 at yahoo.com> on 2007.05.09 at 03:57:12(15662) Hmmm...now i'm not so sure what it is...it's very leathery and shiny, and the distance to the midrib is identical from end to end....http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_5_8_d5734.jpga san juan wrote: No problem....let me take a pic and post it....Julius Boos wrote: From : a san juan Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Monday, May 7, 2007 3:14 AMTo : aroid-l@gizmoworks.comSubject : Re: [Aroid] I.D.'ing some Meconostigmas ex: BrazilDear Arlan,This is good news! Please send me a jpeg/photo of a leaf of the plant in question!!Also, check my 'key' below, as some/most of the plants that grew from seed labeled as P. adamantinum and P. saxicolum grew to be 'something' close to P. bipinnatifidum/'selloum', but are deff. NOT P. adamantinium or P. saxicolum! I just received a photo of one such plant, and I will forward it to you after this.Also check my 'key' (below)---- in P. adamantinum, the distance from the BOTTOM of the sinuses (divisions) when measured to the mid rib DECREASES as you measure them from the tip of the anterior division up towards the petiole juncture, while exactly the OPPOSITE is true of any P. bipinnatifidium-type plant. Check and tell me what you see in YOUR plant ex: Brian Williams!Bear in mind that we should EXPECT the plants grown for seed of P. bipinnatifidium to vary from each other, and especially when compared to any plant of P. bipinnatifidium in the U.S.A., the reasoning being that presumably ALL P. +More bipinnatifidium/'selloum' here in the U.S.A. are out of tissue culture, and so are clones of one another, and so will show little or no differences to each other. The plants from seed SHOULD show differences as they are NOT genitically alike!The Best,Julius Boos>>I got one from brian williams labeled "P. adamantinum" and it looks like >>it is growing as such. It definitely is not a P. bipinnatifidum at >>least.<From : Julius Boos Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Friday, May 4, 2007 9:20 AM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : [Aroid-l] FW: Philo. sps. seeds, S. Amer. Co. Dear Friends, Bear with me, I believe that we/I am pretty close to either solving OR giving up on this facet of my search for accuracy in this matter. I have not received any replies from anyone with whom Vic Soukup shared seeds, I can only HOPE that a few of you will step forward with information. I have made some notes on how anyone can I.D. a plant of any Meconostigma sp. mentioned by Vic (below), this may help those of us who may STILL have plants mislabeled and grown from seed sent from this Company. I could not do a comparison chart as I had planned, my old comp. (or my dumb brain) would not let it be. Google these species, there are GREAT photos out there, Arlan San Juan and David Scherberich`s sites come to mind. SO---here goes-- Philo. bipinnatifidium. This seems to be the species that MOST of the seeds from Brazil, labeled as other species, grew up to be, so I will start here. It is a HUGE species, but we may have been dealing with smaller, sub-adult plants. Adult leaf blade often over 30" long, many divisions that are bipinnifed/divided, secondary divisions generally at least 6 cm. long. In juvenile/sub-adult plants there are sometimes no bipinnate/secondary divisions. Distances between the bottom of the sinuses (the spaces between the divisions) and the midrib INCREASE starting from the tip of the leaf blade, and going upwards toward the juncture with the petiole. Intravaginal squamules (the many thorn-like structures surrounding the point where the petiole joins the rhizome or 'trunk') are long (5-12 mm, 2-4mm wide at base), flattened, pointed and chessnut-red in color, easily detachable. Leaf-scars on trunk are elongated/oval, aprox: 6.5 wide X 5 cm high, colored light gray, with dark gray margins. Petioles sulcate in cross section. (Juvenile plants of this species sometimes can resemble P. saxicolum, but at this stage will have NO visible rhizome/trunk). P. adamintinum. This is a SMALL species, leaf blades in adult plants from 6 1/2"-13" long! Anterior divisions of leaf blade only sometimes have secondary divisions, very small/short, no more than just a 'scallop', under 1 cm long. Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and the midrib DECREASE as you move from the tip upward toward the juncture of the petiole. Intravaginal squamules decidious (falling off), sometimes persistant, small, 0.1-0.2 mm. Leaf scars on rhizome/trunk are greenish-gray w/ chessnut margins, elliptic to Petiole elliptic to round in cross section. P. saxicolum. Another smaller species. Leaf blade no longer then 12"- 18" , divisions not as deep as in near/adult P. bipinnatifidium or especially P. adamintinum, never divided. As in P. bipinnatifidium, the distances between the bottom of the sinuses and the midrib INCREASE from the tip upwards toward the juncture with the petiole. P. paludicola. Leaves held errect to semi-errect. No intravaginal squamules on THICK rhizome/trunk. Leaf blade with shallow divisions. Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and the midrib increase rapidly from tip towards petiole juncture. P. eichleri ( I THINK!) may be a hybrid between P. bipinnatifidium and maybe P. speciosum, the P. 'selloum' and a couple of the last species I have no idea what was allegedly being sold here, so I choose to ignore them for now. Well, I HOPE these notes may assist some of you 'out there' who may have plants that you may be doubtful about! Good Growing, Julius Boos, WPB, FLORIDA >>>Dear Friends, Below is a note and appeal from one of our serious researchers who used the seeds sent up to him by the S.A American Co. a few years ago. As we have been discussing, MANY of these seed MUST have been mislabeled by the Company that sold them, as the "self-heading" Philodendron sps. which belong to the special group Meconostigma seem to have all grown out to be Philo. bipinnatifidium ("selloum" in the commercial U.S. trade). As Vic says, he shared some seed from each packet with a grower, so what I am trying to determine is exactly WHO these people were, and if any of the seed labled with the names Vic gives (below) germinated and grew, and what the plants from a labeled packet might have turned out to be. Several Philodendrons on the list given by Vic are vine-types (not 'self-heading'), and I know that at least a few grew to be vines, but who knows their true identity! I know at this stage that we are probably trying to make 'chicken soup out of BAD chicken poop', but let`s see if anyone can add some information and so help Vic with his research. The Best, Good Growing, Julius<<< From : Victor Soukup Sent : Thursday, May 3, 2007 3:28 PM To : "Julius Boos" Subject : Philodendron species tested. >>Dear Julius, I tested 16 "species" of Philodendron. In each case I shared a packet of seed with someone else --- unfortunately I don't remember with whom. I list them here as they were labelled on the packets. P. tuxla, P. giganteum, P. bipinnatifidum, P. erubescens, P. lundii, P. columbianum, P. eichleri, P. grandifolium, P. wendlandii, P. crassinervium, P. adamantinum, P. cordatum (oxycardium), P. 'selloum'-Uruguay, P. 'selloum', Philo "v. Sao Paulo", P. "angra dos rios". I sure hope you can make something of these. Thanks in advance for your help. With very warm regards, Vic<< _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l_______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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