Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2009.08.12 at 22:05:26(19711) I'm trying to find a photo of the inflorescence of Philodendroncrassinervium for a new web page. The plant has two synonyms I'maware of including Philodendron alternans and Philodendronlanceolatum although there is some difference of opinion on whetheror not the two are species or synonymous with P. crassinervium. Before you tell me here they aren't synonyms please read what I'vewritten on the page. After that, if you wish to respond please do so. I just try to post what the scientific texts say. If any of you have photos of the spathe and spadix please drop me aline. I'll gladly give you credit for your photo on the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas HTML +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Steve@ExoticRainforest.com --------------010504000507090409090400

From: "Christopher Rogers" <crogers at ecoanalysts.com> on 2009.08.14 at 06:40:56(19718) Neat, Steve! Thanks for the info! D. Christopher Rogers HTML +More Senior Invertebrate Ecologist/ Taxonomist ((,///////////=======< EcoAnalysts, Inc. 1.530.383.4798 P.O. Box 4098 Davis, CA 95616 USA Invertebrate Taxonomy Endangered Species Ecological Studies Bioassessment Invasive Species Plankton Phycology IDAHO  CALIFORNIA  MISSOURI  PENNSYLVANIA  VANCOUVER WWW.ECOANALYSTS.COM  ECO@ECOANALYSTS.COM From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:05 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence I'm trying to find a photo of the inflorescence of Philodendron crassinervium for a new web page. The plant has two synonyms I'm aware of including Philodendron alternans and Philodendron lanceolatum although there is some difference of opinion on whether or not the two are species or synonymous with P. crassinervium. Before you tell me here they aren't synonyms please read what I've written on the page. After that, if you wish to respond please do so. I just try to post what the scientific texts say. If any of you have photos of the spathe and spadix please drop me a line. I'll gladly give you credit for your photo on the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendr on% 20lanceolatum.pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Steve@ExoticRainforest.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.54/2300 - Release Date: 08/13/09 06:11:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01CA1C6F.8117D210 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --==============H67788311464386868==--

From: "Tom Croat" <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2009.08.14 at 20:27:40(19720) Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’spainting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom HTML +More From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 20095:05 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendroncrassinervium inflorescence I'm trying to find aphoto of the inflorescence of Philodendroncrassinervium for a new web page. The plant has two synonymsI'm aware of including Philodendronalternans and Philodendronlanceolatum although there is some difference of opinion on whetheror not the two are species or synonymous with P.crassinervium. Before you tell me here they aren't synonymsplease read what I've written on the page. After that, if you wish to respondplease do so. I just try to post what the scientific texts say. If any of you have photos of the spatheand spadix please drop me a line. I'll gladly give you credit for yourphoto on the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Steve@ExoticRainforest.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA1D1D.AB9DB8F9----============== 72571158760785204=

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2009.08.15 at 12:56:50(19725) Thanks a bunch Tom. I received thescan last night and will add it to the page. The thing I find very interesting is Schott's illustration doesn'tappear to match some of your field notes on TROPICOS. Mauro Piexoto ofBrazil Plants allowed me to use one of his photos of two inflorescencesof P. crassinervium which are "boat shaped" as your notesstate they should be. Could this indicate that Schott actuallydescribed something that no longer exists or possibly either of theplants we know as Philodendron lanceolatum or Philodendronalternans? As I told you privately neither Marcus Nadruz norEduardo Gonçalves appear to believe P. alternans should beconsidered a synonym. There seems to always be more to learn. Steve HTML +More Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’spainting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom nfo/aroid-l --------------080507030809020806000703

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2009.08.15 at 13:42:57(19726) Tom, thanks so much for the plate.I've added it to the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html I find it interesting Schott's plate does not appear to match yourfield notes on P. crassinervium or Mauro Peixoto's photo. Ihave three questions. Is Scott's drawing applicable to P. alternansor P. lanceolatum? And more important in my mind, couldSchott have described something that no longer exists in the forests ofBrazil? Or, is it possible P. alternans is truly a speciessince it is more often epiphytic as well as pendent while P.crassinervium is primarily terrestrial? The plants in my owncollection appear to be different and Eduardo and Marcus have both saidprivately they are not likely to be the same plant species. Inaddition, notes and photos I've added to the page from Leland Miyanoalso at least appear to indicate they may not be the same plant. Input from any of our experts would be most helpful. And by the way,I've copied this privately to all mentioned in this note so if any ofyou choose to comment please include Aroid l when you respond. Thanks as always! Steve Lucas HTML +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’spainting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom aroid-l --------------010306020304060400040102

From: brian lee <lbmkjm at yahoo.com> on 2009.08.15 at 15:56:31(19728) Dear Steve, Aloha. I took a quick look at Mauro Peixoto's photos and the scan of Schott's plate from Tom. They look very different. Ask Mauro exactly where he took those photos and request vegetative details as well. Notice how short the peduncles in Mauro's photos are. Also the shape of the spathe differs from Schott's plate. Please send me the original descriptions of Philodendron crassinervium, Philodendron alternans, and Philodendron lanceolatum, if you can...illustrations as well. Unfortunately, I cannot examine the type specimens to understand these taxa as described unless someone scans them for us or if they are in a virtual herbarium. I can comment in a better fashion if you can forward me any original descriptions and illustrations. Aloha, Leland HTML +More --- On Sat, 8/15/09, ExoticRainforest wrote: From: ExoticRainforest Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence To: "Discussion of aroids" Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 3:42 AM Tom, thanks so much for the plate. I've added it to the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html I find it interesting Schott's plate does not appear to match your field notes on P. crassinervium or Mauro Peixoto's photo. I have three questions. Is Scott's drawing applicable to P. alternans or P. lanceolatum? And more important in my mind, could Schott have described something that no longer exists in the forests of Brazil? Or, is it possible P. alternans is truly a species since it is more often epiphytic as well as pendent while P. crassinervium is primarily terrestrial? The plants in my own collection appear to be different and Eduardo and Marcus have both said privately they are not likely to be the same plant species. In addition, notes and photos I've added to the page from Leland Miyano also at least appear to indicate they may not be the same plant. Input from any of our experts would be most helpful. And by the way, I've copied this privately to all mentioned in this note so if any of you choose to comment please include Aroid l when you respond. Thanks as always! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’s painting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom aroid-l --0-546987913-1250351791=:12734----==============424810072152078447=

From: "Marcus Nadruz" <mnadruz at jbrj.gov.br> on 2009.08.15 at 16:26:56(19729) Dear colleagues, I am on holiday but return on Monday, so I forward the picture of the inflorescence and answer emails on the other Philodendron lanceolatum. Marcus HTML +More > Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’s painting of the inflorescences if you would like it. > Tom > > > > From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:05 PM > To: Discussion of aroids > Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence > > I'm trying to find a photo of the inflorescence of Philodendron crassinervium for a new web page. The plant has two synonyms I'm aware of including Philodendron alternans and Philodendron lanceolatum although there is some difference of opinion on whether or not the two are species or synonymous with P. crassinervium. Before you tell me here they aren't synonyms please read what I've written on the page. After that, if you wish to respond please do so. I just try to post what the scientific texts say. > > If any of you have photos of the s pat he and spadix please drop me a line. I'll gladly give you credit for your photo on the page. > > http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html > > > > Thanks! > > Steve Lucas > www.ExoticRainforest.com > > Steve@ExoticRainforest.com > > Marcus A. Nadruz Coelho Pesquisador Titular III Diretoria de Pesquisas Instituto de Pesquisas Jardim Botanico do Rio de Janeiro/MMA 21 32042144 (http://www.jbrj.gov.br) ------=OPENWEBMAIL_ATT_0.470741333530412----==============13222672937528078=

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2009.08.15 at 19:11:57(19732) A big apology Tom! I didn't actually refer to my notes beforesending this Aroid l post and later learned the "boat shaped" mentionwas not from your field notes! Instead it came from Anna Haigh'stranslation of Kurt Krause' published synopsis from 1913 which can befound on CATE Araceae. The description fromKrause appears very different than the plate you sent. I've copied ithere: Philodendroncrassinervium Lindl. sec CATE Araceae, 2009 Stem repent and scandent, internodes 5-10 cm long, 1.5-2 cm thick. LEAVES: Petiolesemiterete, 10-13 cm long, 5-8 mm thick, sheathed at the base for 2-3cm; Blade linear-oblong, or lanceolate-oblong, apex cuspidate-acuminatefor almost 1 cm, narrowly cuneate towards the base, 3-4.5 cm, rarelylonger, 6-10 cm wide; midrib swollen, ca. 1 cm wide at the base,strongly attenuating towards the apex; lateral veins slender,subparallel, spreading, ascending and joining near the margin. INFLORESCENCES: Peduncleslender, 10-15 cm long, 3-4 mm thick. Spathe boat-shaped, apex shortlyapiculate, tube 3-4 cm long, externally green, internally at the baselight purple, green-coloured towards the spathe-blade; blade shortlystipitate; female zone 5-6 cm long, 1 cm thick. Pistils ovoid, ca. 2 mmlong, 4-6-locular, locules many-ovulate. Male flowers usuallytriandrous. Berries turbinate [obconical], 4-5 mm long, 2 mm thick,white, stigma brown with 4-6 small lobes. Seeds oblong, pale. Krause,K. 1913. Araceae-Philodendroideae-Philodendreae-Philodendrinae. DasPflanzenreich. 60 (IV.23Db): 1-143 p. 22, translated by A. Haigh. I've added an explanation to the page: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html Steve HTML +More Thanks a bunch Tom. I received thescan last night and will add it to the page. The thing I find very interesting is Schott's illustration doesn'tappear to match some of your field notes on TROPICOS. Mauro Piexoto ofBrazil Plants allowed me to use one of his photos of two inflorescencesof P. crassinervium which are "boat shaped" as your notesstate they should be. Could this indicate that Schott actuallydescribed something that no longer exists or possibly either of theplants we know as Philodendron lanceolatum or Philodendronalternans? As I told you privately neither Marcus Nadruz norEduardo Gonçalves appear to believe P. alternans should beconsidered a synonym. There seems to always be more to learn. Steve Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’spainting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom --------------080504030403060203080405

From: "Marcus Nadruz" <mnadruz at jbrj.gov.br> on 2009.08.17 at 16:22:53(19736) Oi Steve, I collected two species here in Rio de Janeiro. Are distinctspecies. P. alternatum does not occur in areas near the sea, but inforests up to 500 meters. I am sending pictures for you. Graziela Barroso (19570 cited the species in publication as distinct from P. crassinervium and P. longilaminatum. Marcus HTML +More >> I'm trying to find a photo of the inflorescence of Philodendroncrassinervium for a new web page. The plant has two synonyms I'maware of including Philodendron alternans and Philodendronlanceolatum although there is some difference of opinion on whetheror not the two are species or synonymous with P. crassinervium. Before you tell me here they aren't synonyms please read what I'vewritten on the page. After that, if you wish to respond please do so. I just try to post what the scientific texts say. > > If any of you have photos of the spathe and spadix please drop me aline. I'll gladly give you credit for your photo on the page. > > http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html > > > > Thanks! > > Steve Lucas > www.ExoticRainforest.com > > Steve@ExoticRainforest.com > > Marcus A. Nadruz Coelho Pesquisador Titular III Diretoria de Pesquisas Instituto de Pesquisas Jardim Botanico do Rio de Janeiro/MMA 21 32042144 (http://www.jbrj.gov.br) ------=OPENWEBMAIL_ATT_0.53624613866317--------=OPENWEBMAIL_ATT_0.94394965199487

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2009.08.17 at 23:20:40(19739) Thanks so much Marcus! I will addthese photos and your information regarding P. crassinervium tothe page right away! Your inflorescence is very much like Schott'spainting. I also received a private note from Anna Haige at Kew andshe saw little difference in Mauro's photo and the drawing as well. Isuppose it is the term "boat shaped" that makes some of our eyes dodouble takes. Steve Lucas HTML +More Marcus Nadruz wrote: Oi Steve, I collected two species here in Rio deJaneiro. Are distinctspecies. P. alternatum does not occur in areas near the sea, but inforests up to 500 meters. I am sending pictures for you. Graziela Barroso (19570 cited thespecies inpublication as distinct from P. crassinervium and P. longilaminatum. Marcus > I'm trying to find a photo of theinflorescence of Philodendroncrassinervium for a new web page. The plant has two synonyms I'maware of including Philodendron alternans and Philodendronlanceolatum although there is some difference of opinion on whetheror not the two are species or synonymous with P. crassinervium. Before you tell me here they aren't synonyms please read what I'vewritten on the page. After that, if you wish to respond please do so. I just try to post what the scientific texts say. > > If any of you have photos of the spathe and spadix please drop mealine. I'll gladly give you credit for your photo on the page. > > http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html > > > > Thanks! > > Steve Lucas > www.ExoticRainforest.com > > Steve@ExoticRainforest.com > > Marcus A. Nadruz Coelho Pesquisador Titular III Diretoria de Pesquisas Instituto de Pesquisas Jardim Botanico do Rio de Janeiro/MMA 21 32042144 (http://www.jbrj.gov.br) _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --------------050203060804000105030708

From: Scherberich <aroids at numericable.fr> on 2009.08.18 at 17:04:34(19742) Dear Steve, Here is the original description with plate of Philodendron crassinervium which was made by Lindley in the Botanical Register. Marcus Nadruz' pictures and Schott's drawing do match quite well with Lindley's drawing. The pictures you have from Mauro Peixoto (inflorescence with unconstricted spathe) certainly represent a different taxon. With best regards, David HTML +More Le 15 août 09 à 15:42, ExoticRainforest a écrit : Tom, thanks so much for the plate. I've added it to the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html I find it interesting Schott's plate does not appear to match your field notes on P. crassinervium or Mauro Peixoto's photo. I have three questions. Is Scott's drawing applicable to P. alternans or P. lanceolatum? And more important in my mind, could Schott have described something that no longer exists in the forests of Brazil? Or, is it possible P. alternans is truly a species since it is more often epiphytic as well as pendent while P. crassinervium is primarily terrestrial? The plants in my own collection appear to be different and Eduardo and Marcus have both said privately they are not likely to be the same plant species. In addition, notes and photos I've added to the page from Leland Miyano also at least appear to indicate they may not be the same plant. Input from any of our experts would be most helpful. And by the way, I've copied this privately to all mentioned in this note so if any of you choose to comment please include Aroid l when you respond. Thanks as always! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’s painting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l David SCHERBERICH Email: aroids@numericable.fr http://www.aroidpictures.fr --Apple-Mail-2--422548997Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64Content-Id:

From: "Harry Luther" <hluther at selby.org> on 2009.08.19 at 00:33:13(19743) I collected P. crassinervium in 1996 between Mangaritba and Angra dos Reis, R de J, Brazil in lowland more or less undisturbed (rare!) Atlantic Forest. I do not believe that it and the P. alternans that I received from Leland are conspecific. HEL -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest HTML +More Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:43 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence Tom, thanks so much for the plate. I've added it to the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html I find it interesting Schott's plate does not appear to match your field notes on P. crassinervium or Mauro Peixoto's photo. I have three questions. Is Scott's drawing applicable to P. alternans or P. lanceolatum? And more important in my mind, could Schott have described something that no longer exists in the forests of Brazil? Or, is it possible P. alternans is truly a species since it is more often epiphytic as well as pendent while P. crassinervium is primarily terrestrial? The plants in my own collection appear to be different and Eduardo and Marcus have both said privately they are not likely to be the same plant species. In addition, notes and photos I've added to the page from Leland Miyano also at least appear to indicate they may not be the same plant. Input from any of our experts would be most helpful. And by the way, I've copied this privately to all mentioned in this note so if any of you choose to comment please include Aroid l when you respond. Thanks as always! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’s painting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom aroid-l ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA2064.A2B4E0A1----==============65670355145797935=

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2009.08.19 at 04:02:31(19745) Thanks Harry. I'm with you and Iknow Leland and Marcus are as well. We're trying to find a copy of theoriginal description as well as a photo of the inflorescence of P.alternans if anyone has it in English! If not in English send itanyway and we'll get it translated!! Steve HTML +More Harry Luther wrote: I collected P. crassinervium in 1996 betweenMangaritba and Angra dos Reis, R de J, Brazil in lowland more or lessundisturbed (rare!) Atlantic Forest. I do not believe that it and theP. alternans that I received from Leland are conspecific. HEL aroid-l --------------030706090205020904040301

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2009.08.19 at 04:05:11(19746) David, this is incrediblyvaluable! I've been trading a lot of mail with Marcus and Leland sothis is great help. Steve HTML +More Scherberich wrote: Dear Steve, Here is the original description with plate of Philodendroncrassinervium which was made by Lindley in the Botanical Register.Marcus Nadruz' pictures and Schott's drawing do match quite well withLindley's drawing. The pictures you have from Mauro Peixoto(inflorescence with unconstricted spathe) certainly represent adifferent taxon. With best regards, David tinfo/aroid-l --------------070500020502020904050805

From: "Tom Croat" <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2009.08.19 at 04:23:12(19747) Dear Steve: Schotts drawing is of P. crassinervium. Yes thing have gone extinct after having been described. Tom HTML +More From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of Harry Luther Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 20097:33 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l]Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence I collected P. crassinervium in 1996between Mangaritba and Angra dos Reis, R de J, Brazil in lowland more or lessundisturbed (rare!) Atlantic Forest. I do not believethat it and the P. alternans that I received from Leland areconspecific. HEL -----OriginalMessage----- From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Saturday, August 15, 20099:43 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendroncrassinervium inflorescence Tom, thanks so much for the plate. I've added it tothe page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html I find it interesting Schott's plate does not appear to match your field noteson P. crassinervium or MauroPeixoto's photo. I have three questions. Is Scott's drawingapplicable to P. alternans or P. lanceolatum? And moreimportant in my mind, could Schott have described something that no longerexists in the forests of Brazil? Or, is it possible P. alternans is truly a species since itis more often epiphytic as well as pendent while P. crassinervium is primarily terrestrial? The plantsin my own collection appear to be different and Eduardo and Marcus have bothsaid privately they are not likely to be the same plant species. Inaddition, notes and photos I've added to the page from Leland Miyano also atleast appear to indicate they may not be the same plant. Input from any of our experts would be most helpful. And by the way, I'vecopied this privately to all mentioned in this note so if any of you choose tocomment please include Aroid l when you respond. Thanks as always! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scanSchott’s painting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom aroid-l ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA2084.C3978D27----==============y44861033493250716=

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2009.08.19 at 06:57:31(19750) I had it noted correctly then. Thanks! What we need now is to see the inflorescence of Philodendronalternans! Does anyone have one? Steve HTML +More Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: Schottsdrawing is of P. crassinervium. Yes thing have gone extinct after having been described. Tom --------------090208080406030202080300

From: brian lee <lbmkjm at yahoo.com> on 2009.08.19 at 15:47:56(19751) Dear Steve, Aloha. I have taken another closer look at Marcus Nadruz's photos of Philodendron lanceolatum, and this also looks different to me from Philodendron crassinervium. I am only relying on those small photos, so these may be artifacts of the photograph quality, but this is what I notice. First of all, the inflorescence is not hooded or cucullate, as the original description mentions. The color of the inflorescence differs, although, how taxonomically significant this is, varies. Second, it appears that the primary lateral veins of the Philodendron lanceolatum are prominent. Thirdly, and this is the difficult thing to confirm from a small image, is the petioles appear to be adaxially sulcate, with a sharp edge...this would make the petiole "C" shaped. I could be wrong, but, this is what I am seeing. If I am correct, perhaps Philodendron lanceolatum may be resurrected from synonymy from Philodendron crassinervium. Remember, I do not have any specimens to directly observe, so some of these details may be optical illusions. Aloha, Leland HTML +More --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Tom Croat wrote: From: Tom Croat Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence To: "Discussion of aroids" Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:23 PM Dear Steve: Schotts drawing is of P. crassinervium. Yes thing have gone extinct after having been described. Tom From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Harry Luther Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:33 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence I collected P. crassinervium in 1996 between Mangaritba and Angra dos Reis, R de J, Brazil in lowland more or less undisturbed (rare!) Atlantic Forest . I do not believe that it and the P. alternans that I received from Leland are conspecific. HEL -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:43 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence Tom, thanks so much for the plate. I've added it to the page. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20crassinervium%20Philodendron%20lanceolatum.pc.html I find it interesting Schott's plate does not appear to match your field notes on P. crassinervium or Mauro Peixoto's photo. I have three questions. Is Scott's drawing applicable to P. alternans or P. lanceolatum? And more important in my mind, could Schott have described something that no longer exists in the forests of Brazil? Or, is it possible P. alternans is truly a species since it is more often epiphytic as well as pendent while P. crassinervium is primarily terrestrial? The plants in my own collection appear to be different and Eduardo and Marcus have both said privately they are not likely to be the same plant species. In addition, notes and photos I've added to the page from Leland Miyano also at least appear to indicate they may not be the same plant. Input from any of our experts would be most helpful. And by the way, I've copied this privately to all mentioned in this note so if any of you choose to comment please include Aroid l when you respond. Thanks as always! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: We could scan Schott’s painting of the inflorescences if you would like it. Tom aroid-l -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --0-909592356-1250696876=:85171----=============="39401822656489794=

From: Conrad Fleming <conradfleming at yahoo.com> on 2009.08.20 at 19:14:34(19768) Dear Steve, I've never so far had much success with P. alternans. Vegetatively, it is definitely not P. crassinervium. I'd like to try a cutting again, if you ever find a source. And remember my dearely beloved P, longilaminatum? This is another one that has been sunk into synonymy to P. crassinervium. I despair of ever finding a source for that one---apart from botanical gardens like Kew and Belgium, who refuse to have anything to do with collectors like us. All the best, Conrad HTML +More From: ExoticRainforest To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:57:31 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron crassinervium inflorescence I had it noted correctly then. Thanks! What we need now is to see the inflorescence of Philodendron alternans! Does anyone have one? Steve Tom Croat wrote: Dear Steve: Schotts drawing is of P. crassinervium. Yes thing have gone extinct after having been described. Tom --0-2083786870-1250795674=:5371----==============(01321461258818482=

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2009.08.20 at 22:27:48(19774) Thanks Conrad. I just checked thedata bases and didn't find where Philodendron longilaminatum wasa synonym but that gives me more to research! My P. alternansis very slow to grow but once possible I'll gladly trade. I'vereceived quite a bit of mail from experts saying they believe Philodendronalternans is a unique species and try to post those in thearticle. In time I'm sure we will find out but it might take a DNAtest. If one has been done I'd love to hear about it! Steve HTML +More P. longilaminatum was a synpony Conrad Fleming wrote: Dear Steve, I've never so far had much success with P. alternans. Vegetatively, it is definitely not P. crassinervium. I'd like to try acutting again, if you ever find a source. And remember my dearelybeloved P, longilaminatum? This is another one that has been sunk intosynonymy to P. crassinervium. I despair of ever finding a source forthat one---apart from botanical gardens like Kew and Belgium, whorefuse to have anything to do with collectors like us. All the best, Conrad roid-l --------------050400060700020001080005

From: "Marcus Nadruz" <mnadruz at jbrj.gov.br> on 2009.08.21 at 10:42:10(19795) Friends, P. longilaminatum is different from P. crassinervium, especially inrelation to midrib and shape of the petiole. It is a species thatoccurs in the state of Bahia. Marcus > Thanks Conrad. I just checked thedata bases and didn't find where Philodendron longilaminatum wasa synonym but that gives me more to research! My P. alternansis very slow to grow but once possible I'll gladly trade. I'vereceived quite a bit of mail from experts saying they believe Philodendronalternans is a unique species and try to post those in thearticle. In time I'm sure we will find out but it might take a DNAtest. If one has been done I'd love to hear about it! > > Steve > > > P. longilaminatum was a synpony > > Conrad Fleming wrote: HTML +More > Dear Steve, > > I've never so far had much success with P. alternans. Vegetatively, it is definitely not P. crassinervium. I'd like to try acutting again, if you ever find a source. And remember my dearelybeloved P, longilaminatum? This is another one that has been sunk intosynonymy to P. crassinervium. I despair of ever finding a source forthat one---apart from botanical gardens like Kew and Belgium, whorefuse to have anything to do with collectors like us. > > All the best, > > Conrad roid-l Marcus A. Nadruz Coelho Pesquisador Titular III Diretoria de Pesquisas Instituto de Pesquisas Jardim Botanico do Rio de Janeiro/MMA 21 32042144 (http://www.jbrj.gov.br) ------=OPENWEBMAIL_ATT_0.751501403373794----==============ƒ61242856493248164=

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