Thyphonium nubicum vs Typhonium venosum 'IndianGiant'?

From: agoston.janos at citromail.hu (Jan Agoston) on 2007.08.25 at 08:36:34(16161) Hi All, I have the "seldom spotted" here at home, but it didn't flowered yet. It was purchased as Sauromatum punctatum, which was told by experts, that it is only a form of the T. venosum. For me it is smaller than the others (T. venosum and "Sauromatum guttatum" which are also synonims, which is true, cause they were cross pollinated and now the fruits are ripening), but the leaw segments were wider, and also less segmented. The others were around 90 cm (~3 feet) high. Well of course we have had an unusuall hot and wet summer, often chanageable, which may have influence on the plants. Unfortunately they are now in a rest so no more foliage for this year... My opinion is that this is just a form of the Ty. venosum, not a cultivar. Cultivar for me means that it was breed by somebody. Bye, Jan +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Williams To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:43 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Thyphonium nubicum vs Typhonium venosum 'IndianGiant'? This giant form is different in over all size my plant of the regular form grow to 1 to 2 feet while this Indian Giant form grows to 4 feet tall or more. The stems are different as well the regular form is highly spotted while the giant form has much fewer spotting. The leaves on the giant form also tend to be wider as well and less dissected as the more common form. The flowers as far as I can tell at identical and this may be just a odd selected seedling or a tetraploid. Here are some photos showing the differences. Here is a pic of the common form with the highly spotted leaves. Here is the giant form much fewer spotting and large less dissected leaves. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20070825/d90c4bc5/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 75196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20070825/d90c4bc5/attachment-0003.jpeg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 67452 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20070825/d90c4bc5/attachment-0004.jpeg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 53548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20070825/d90c4bc5/attachment-0005.jpeg

From: crogers at ecoanalysts.com (D. Christopher Rogers) on 2007.08.27 at 15:42:03(16165) Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. This is very interesting. I have T. venosum. It has very spotted petioles, but grows to 4.5 - 5 feet in my greenhouse, 3.5 - 4.5 out doors. The younger leaves are more dissect as Brian shows them, the older leaves are less so, especially in the greenhouse. Maybe I have hybrids? Maybe the different forms are clinal and my material was collected in between them? Seems like an interesting amount of variability. Any suggestions? Christophero D. Christopher Rogers +More Invertebrate Ecologist/Taxonomist ((,///////////=====< EcoAnalysts, Inc. (530) 406-1178 707 Dead Cat Alley Suite 201 Woodland, CA 95695 USA ? Invertebrate Taxonomy ? Invertebrate Ecological Studies ? Bioassessment and Study Design ? Endangered Invertebrate Species ? Invasive Invertebrate Species ? Periphyton/ Phytoplankton ? Zooplankton Moscow, ID ? Bozeman, MT ? Woodland, CA ? Joplin, MO ? Selinsgrove, PA www.ecoanalysts.com -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com]On Behalf Of Brian Williams Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:44 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Thyphonium nubicum vs Typhonium venosum 'IndianGiant'? This giant form is different in over all size my plant of the regular form grow to 1 to 2 feet while this Indian Giant form grows to 4 feet tall or more. The stems are different as well the regular form is highly spotted while the giant form has much fewer spotting. The leaves on the giant form also tend to be wider as well and less dissected as the more common form. The flowers as far as I can tell at identical and this may be just a odd selected seedling or a tetraploid. Here are some photos showing the differences. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20070827/3a64d3fb/attachment.htm

From: StroWi at t-online.de (StroWi at t-online.de) on 2007.09.21 at 12:32:47(16313) Aroiders, a (very) late "Thank you" to all of you who replied to my question! All the comments indicate that there is probably a lot of variation in T. venosum in respect to plant size and pattern of the petiole. Since I have just one genotype (thanks CJ!), I could nor tell the difference, neither confirm to some fellow aroiders here in Germany that my plant is the 'Indian Giant'. However, from all the descriptions and pictures it seems to be that I really have the 'Indian Giant'. Furthermore it was confirmed by the american fellow aroider I got the offset from that it came from Tony Avent's PDN as 'Indian Giant'. I attach a picture showing the wider leaf segments and the fewer spotted petiole. +More @Tony: Interesting what you wrote 'Indian Giant' being a strain and crosspollinating with the regular venosum. It would be interseting, too, to hear if the F1 is sterile and so promoting the suggestion that 'Indian Giant' could be a tetraploid. @Brian: Wow, your 'Indian Giant' ?must have doubled it's chromosome set spontaniously according to the leaf your picture shows, at least an octoploid - VERY impressive! Regarding my question about nubicum, I got a reply in our German Amorhophallus-Forum from a finnish Amorphophile that it was discussed in another forum that 'Indian Giant' and Sauromatum nubicum might be the same strain or genotype. (note: This was suggested by two guys named Hetterscheid and Boyce - ever heard of them???? ? ?;-) (Citation from the www.amorphophallus-forum.de: "RE: Typhonium ( Sauromatum) nubicum clip this post email this post what is this? see most clipped and recent clippings Posted by Razorback33 z7 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 18, 05 at 13:33 According to one source, Sauromatum nubicum was moved to the Genus Typhonium and included within the species Typhonium venosum. Citation published in Aroideana in Year 2000. Authors were Hellerscheid, W & PC Boyce. So, it is probably the one known as 'India Giant' Rb" End of citation) If you want to read the whole citation go to: http://www.amorphophallus-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t16 and scroll down a little bit.... Best, Bernhard. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: P1000777_Ind_Giant_web.jpg Type: image/pjpeg Size: 521744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20070921/5f06883d/attachment-0001.bin

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