Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum

From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" <steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2007.02.20 at 14:57:40(15308) If anyone has a documented photo of Philodendron domesticum G.S. Bunting I'd love to see the plant! And I'd love to know where this species originated. Some of you may recall our discussion last summer regarding "Philodendron glaucophyllum". Many were not excited to read Dr. Croat's explanation that name is fictitious and "made-up" name for Philodendron hastatum. I corresponded with both Dr. Croat and Dr. Gonçalves at length regarding this Brazilian species. During my search for information I began to run across quite a few internet notations claiming Philodendron hastatum was "formerly known as" Philodendron domesticum. Dr. Croat provided excellent reasoning why this is not possible. P. hastatum was identified 112 years before P. domesticum therefore, assuming these were the same plant, P. hastatum would the name of preference and P. domesticum would be the synonym. Still, many websites make a claim to the contrary. In my internet description of the species I included their claims, which I still believe to be in error. In doing so I listed the names of two websites that had made that claim. I did not attempt to claim they were bad websites, quite the contrary, I described one as "an excellent" website. That one was a large garden website and the other was a county extension agent. But I've also found the claim on the USDA website and quite a few others! Last week I received a letter from the garden website's attorney telling me to remove my claim they were in error or face legal action. So I removed their name. I didn't remove the facts provided by Dr. Croat that P. hastatum is the correct name. I'm not sure if that is all they wanted done so we'll see if I actually get sued for claiming P. hastatum is the real name! I cannot find much information on P. domesticum. The photos on the internet (which cannot be verified) appear to be a totally different species. If anyone has a verified photo of P. domesticum I'd love to see it! I won't make the mistake of ever saying a large corporation is in error scientifically again on my site! Apparently that particular site recently sold to a large magazine and it appears the new owner does not want to have their facts called into question. But I won't change the correct name facts which appear to be scientifically accurate either! The link to my page is attached. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20hastatum%20pc.html _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Harry Witmore" <harrywitmore at witmore.net> on 2007.02.21 at 16:16:27(15312) Thanks for the info Steve. Since there is no authentication process associated with posting on many sites large or not, it is up to each individual to make up his or her mind on what is valid out there and what is not. I have, in the past, posted on the site in question and I certainly am no expert. Most site like this are rife with misidentifications. Believe me I know since I like to collect Dischidias and there is little or no good info out there for them. I did take the opportunity to change my tag after reading the discussion and have noted the change on my site. Harry +More Witmore Cloud Jungle Epiphyteswww.cloudjungle.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Steve Lucas Exotic RainforestSent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:58 AMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum If anyone has a documented photo of Philodendron domesticum G.S. Bunting I'd love to see the plant! And I'd love to know where this species originated. Some of you may recall our discussion last summer regarding "Philodendron glaucophyllum". Many were not excited to read Dr. Croat's explanation that name is fictitious and "made-up" name for Philodendron hastatum. I corresponded with both Dr. Croat and Dr. Gonçalves at length regarding this Brazilian species. During my search for information I began to run across quite a few internet notations claiming Philodendron hastatum was "formerly known as" Philodendron domesticum. Dr. Croat provided excellent reasoning why this is not possible. P. hastatum was identified 112 years before P. domesticum therefore, assuming these were the same plant, P. hastatum would the name of preference and P. domesticum would be the synonym. Still, many websites make a claim to the contrary. In my internet description of the species I included their claims, which I still believe to be in error. In doing so I listed the names of two websites that had made that claim. I did not attempt to claim they were bad websites, quite the contrary, I described one as "an excellent" website. That one was a large garden website and the other was a county extension agent. But I've also found the claim on the USDA website and quite a few others! Last week I received a letter from the garden website's attorney telling me to remove my claim they were in error or face legal action. So I removed their name. I didn't remove the facts provided by Dr. Croat that P. hastatum is the correct name. I'm not sure if that is all they wanted done so we'll see if I actually get sued for claiming P. hastatum is the real name! I cannot find much information on P. domesticum. The photos on the internet (which cannot be verified) appear to be a totally different species. If anyone has a verified photo of P. domesticum I'd love to see it! I won't make the mistake of ever saying a large corporation is in error scientifically again on my site! Apparently that particular site recently sold to a large magazine and it appears the new owner does not want to have their facts called into question. But I won't change the correct name facts which appear to be scientifically accurate either! The link to my page is attached. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20hastatum%20pc.html --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/2007 5:01 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" <steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2007.02.21 at 17:45:36(15314) Thanks Harry! Do you have Philodendron domesticum? Even Dr. Croat is having some difficulty verifying what that plant actually looks like. The few photos I have been able to find have no official verification but they don't look like P. hastatum. I have no idea where sites like the USDA and others got the information that Philodendron domesticum is now the plant we knew as Philodendron hastatum but Tom says that is not correct and his logic makes perfect sense to me. I have responded briefly to the lawyers who are threatening to sue me over this and have no idea if all they wanted was the name of their client removed from my site. It was never my intent to claim that site was bad, just incorrect. But I have now received a couple of emails informing me they are right and I (I guess that means Dr. Croat as well) am wrong. I'd love to see a photo of the real species! Steve +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Witmore To: 'Discussion of aroids' Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum Thanks for the info Steve. Since there is no authentication process associated with posting on many sites large or not, it is up to each individual to make up his or her mind on what is valid out there and what is not. I have, in the past, posted on the site in question and I certainly am no expert. Most site like this are rife with misidentifications. Believe me I know since I like to collect Dischidias and there is little or no good info out there for them. I did take the opportunity to change my tag after reading the discussion and have noted the change on my site. Harry Witmore Cloud Jungle Epiphyteswww.cloudjungle.com From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Steve Lucas Exotic RainforestSent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:58 AMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum If anyone has a documented photo of Philodendron domesticum G.S. Bunting I'd love to see the plant! And I'd love to know where this species originated. Some of you may recall our discussion last summer regarding "Philodendron glaucophyllum". Many were not excited to read Dr. Croat's explanation that name is fictitious and "made-up" name for Philodendron hastatum. I corresponded with both Dr. Croat and Dr. Gonçalves at length regarding this Brazilian species. During my search for information I began to run across quite a few internet notations claiming Philodendron hastatum was "formerly known as" Philodendron domesticum. Dr. Croat provided excellent reasoning why this is not possible. P. hastatum was identified 112 years before P. domesticum therefore, assuming these were the same plant, P. hastatum would the name of preference and P. domesticum would be the synonym. Still, many websites make a claim to the contrary. In my internet description of the species I included their claims, which I still believe to be in error. In doing so I listed the names of two websites that had made that claim. I did not attempt to claim they were bad websites, quite the contrary, I described one as "an excellent" website. That one was a large garden website and the other was a county extension agent. But I've also found the claim on the USDA website and quite a few others! Last week I received a letter from the garden website's attorney telling me to remove my claim they were in error or face legal action. So I removed their name. I didn't remove the facts provided by Dr. Croat that P. hastatum is the correct name. I'm not sure if that is all they wanted done so we'll see if I actually get sued for claiming P. hastatum is the real name! I cannot find much information on P. domesticum. The photos on the internet (which cannot be verified) appear to be a totally different species. If anyone has a verified photo of P. domesticum I'd love to see it! I won't make the mistake of ever saying a large corporation is in error scientifically again on my site! Apparently that particular site recently sold to a large magazine and it appears the new owner does not want to have their facts called into question. But I won't change the correct name facts which appear to be scientifically accurate either! The link to my page is attached. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20hastatum%20pc.html --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/2007 5:01 PM --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Harry Witmore" <harrywitmore at witmore.net> on 2007.02.21 at 21:41:45(15316) Steve if I had it I wouldn't know it since my Philo collection is allot of question marks. I also would like to see it. Harry +More Witmore Cloud Jungle Epiphyteswww.cloudjungle.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Steve Lucas Exotic RainforestSent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:46 PMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum Thanks Harry! Do you have Philodendron domesticum? Even Dr. Croat is having some difficulty verifying what that plant actually looks like. The few photos I have been able to find have no official verification but they don't look like P. hastatum. I have no idea where sites like the USDA and others got the information that Philodendron domesticum is now the plant we knew as Philodendron hastatum but Tom says that is not correct and his logic makes perfect sense to me. I have responded briefly to the lawyers who are threatening to sue me over this and have no idea if all they wanted was the name of their client removed from my site. It was never my intent to claim that site was bad, just incorrect. But I have now received a couple of emails informing me they are right and I (I guess that means Dr. Croat as well) am wrong. I'd love to see a photo of the real species! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Witmore To: 'Discussion of aroids' Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum Thanks for the info Steve. Since there is no authentication process associated with posting on many sites large or not, it is up to each individual to make up his or her mind on what is valid out there and what is not. I have, in the past, posted on the site in question and I certainly am no expert. Most site like this are rife with misidentifications. Believe me I know since I like to collect Dischidias and there is little or no good info out there for them. I did take the opportunity to change my tag after reading the discussion and have noted the change on my site. Harry Witmore Cloud Jungle Epiphyteswww.cloudjungle.com From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Steve Lucas Exotic RainforestSent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:58 AMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum If anyone has a documented photo of Philodendron domesticum G.S. Bunting I'd love to see the plant! And I'd love to know where this species originated. Some of you may recall our discussion last summer regarding "Philodendron glaucophyllum". Many were not excited to read Dr. Croat's explanation that name is fictitious and "made-up" name for Philodendron hastatum. I corresponded with both Dr. Croat and Dr. Gonçalves at length regarding this Brazilian species. During my search for information I began to run across quite a few internet notations claiming Philodendron hastatum was "formerly known as" Philodendron domesticum. Dr. Croat provided excellent reasoning why this is not possible. P. hastatum was identified 112 years before P. domesticum therefore, assuming these were the same plant, P. hastatum would the name of preference and P. domesticum would be the synonym. Still, many websites make a claim to the contrary. In my internet description of the species I included their claims, which I still believe to be in error. In doing so I listed the names of two websites that had made that claim. I did not attempt to claim they were bad websites, quite the contrary, I described one as "an excellent" website. That one was a large garden website and the other was a county extension agent. But I've also found the claim on the USDA website and quite a few others! Last week I received a letter from the garden website's attorney telling me to remove my claim they were in error or face legal action. So I removed their name. I didn't remove the facts provided by Dr. Croat that P. hastatum is the correct name. I'm not sure if that is all they wanted done so we'll see if I actually get sued for claiming P. hastatum is the real name! I cannot find much information on P. domesticum. The photos on the internet (which cannot be verified) appear to be a totally different species. If anyone has a verified photo of P. domesticum I'd love to see it! I won't make the mistake of ever saying a large corporation is in error scientifically again on my site! Apparently that particular site recently sold to a large magazine and it appears the new owner does not want to have their facts called into question. But I won't change the correct name facts which appear to be scientifically accurate either! The link to my page is attached. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20hastatum%20pc.html --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/2007 5:01 PM --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" <steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2007.02.22 at 20:26:26(15325) Do appreciate the attempted assist. I was given Deni Bown's email address today so I have rewritten my question and directed it to her directly. Hopefully we can find where she came to the belief the two plants are the same and P. domesticum is the correct name. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Witmore To: 'Discussion of aroids' Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:41 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum Steve if I had it I wouldn't know it since my Philo collection is allot of question marks. I also would like to see it. Harry Witmore Cloud Jungle Epiphyteswww.cloudjungle.com From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Steve Lucas Exotic RainforestSent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:46 PMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum Thanks Harry! Do you have Philodendron domesticum? Even Dr. Croat is having some difficulty verifying what that plant actually looks like. The few photos I have been able to find have no official verification but they don't look like P. hastatum. I have no idea where sites like the USDA and others got the information that Philodendron domesticum is now the plant we knew as Philodendron hastatum but Tom says that is not correct and his logic makes perfect sense to me. I have responded briefly to the lawyers who are threatening to sue me over this and have no idea if all they wanted was the name of their client removed from my site. It was never my intent to claim that site was bad, just incorrect. But I have now received a couple of emails informing me they are right and I (I guess that means Dr. Croat as well) am wrong. I'd love to see a photo of the real species! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Harry Witmore To: 'Discussion of aroids' Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum Thanks for the info Steve. Since there is no authentication process associated with posting on many sites large or not, it is up to each individual to make up his or her mind on what is valid out there and what is not. I have, in the past, posted on the site in question and I certainly am no expert. Most site like this are rife with misidentifications. Believe me I know since I like to collect Dischidias and there is little or no good info out there for them. I did take the opportunity to change my tag after reading the discussion and have noted the change on my site. Harry Witmore Cloud Jungle Epiphyteswww.cloudjungle.com From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Steve Lucas Exotic RainforestSent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:58 AMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron domesticum vs. Philodendron hastatum If anyone has a documented photo of Philodendron domesticum G.S. Bunting I'd love to see the plant! And I'd love to know where this species originated. Some of you may recall our discussion last summer regarding "Philodendron glaucophyllum". Many were not excited to read Dr. Croat's explanation that name is fictitious and "made-up" name for Philodendron hastatum. I corresponded with both Dr. Croat and Dr. Gonçalves at length regarding this Brazilian species. During my search for information I began to run across quite a few internet notations claiming Philodendron hastatum was "formerly known as" Philodendron domesticum. Dr. Croat provided excellent reasoning why this is not possible. P. hastatum was identified 112 years before P. domesticum therefore, assuming these were the same plant, P. hastatum would the name of preference and P. domesticum would be the synonym. Still, many websites make a claim to the contrary. In my internet description of the species I included their claims, which I still believe to be in error. In doing so I listed the names of two websites that had made that claim. I did not attempt to claim they were bad websites, quite the contrary, I described one as "an excellent" website. That one was a large garden website and the other was a county extension agent. But I've also found the claim on the USDA website and quite a few others! Last week I received a letter from the garden website's attorney telling me to remove my claim they were in error or face legal action. So I removed their name. I didn't remove the facts provided by Dr. Croat that P. hastatum is the correct name. I'm not sure if that is all they wanted done so we'll see if I actually get sued for claiming P. hastatum is the real name! I cannot find much information on P. domesticum. The photos on the internet (which cannot be verified) appear to be a totally different species. If anyone has a verified photo of P. domesticum I'd love to see it! I won't make the mistake of ever saying a large corporation is in error scientifically again on my site! Apparently that particular site recently sold to a large magazine and it appears the new owner does not want to have their facts called into question. But I won't change the correct name facts which appear to be scientifically accurate either! The link to my page is attached. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20hastatum%20pc.html --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/2007 5:01 PM --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007 1:44 PM _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Michael Pascall" <mickpascall at hotmail.com> on 2007.02.23 at 09:12:21(15330) Neil Crafter gave me a cutting of Philo. elongatum , he would have imported the plant from MoBoT or got it from some reputable source , Neil were are you ? +More I have not managed to get the 'glaucophyllum' form of P. hastatum to grow anywhere near as large as the green one from Neil . This correction also makes the hybrid Philo. David Burnett now a cross between P.imbe and hastatum . Philo imbe will prove to be a similar can of worms , as from what I gather 'imbe' is the native name for all climbing Philos . Michael Pascall, _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Getting married? Tell us why to WIN @ LetsShop http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eletsshop%2Ecom%2FCompetitions%2FLetsMarry%2Ftabid%2F549%2FDefault%2Easpx&_tu1480117&_r=HM_tagline_letsshop_wedding&_m=EXT _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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