Philodendron selloum

From: dave-poole at ilsham.demon.co.uk on 1999.01.28 at 17:14:30(2960) I'm curious to hear of any successes with this species as a permanent garden plant in 'cool' areas ie. USDA Zones 9 or above. Having gone through a winter here in England, where even Taro (Colocasia esculenta) has not died down and is now starting to produce new leaves, I'm very tempted to try this in a sheltered corner. I understand the leaves are often killed by frost, but the 'trunk' can and does survive down to around 27F or even lower. I appreciate it probably needs good, hot humid conditions in order to make up in summer, but my little patch (a very sheltered, south facing, walled garden in the far south-west) is invariably very warm and humid throughout the spring, summer and autumn months. Daytime highs of the mid to upper 80's and night-time lows in the upper 60's are not at all uncommon even during a comparatively cool summer. Gardenia jasminoides 'Florida', 'Butterfly gingers' (Hedychiums coronarium & gardnerianum) and even Christmas (Bracket) Cactus (Schlumbergera) flourish and flower without any problems David Poole +More TORQUAY UK USDA Zone 9b

From: Steve & Missy Kennedy <stevemissy at mindspring.com> on 1999.02.01 at 16:53:23(2981) I don't know how it will do in cool summer situations. As I live in the USA Zone 7b on the east coast where we have hot and humid summers, but cold winters. It is reliably root hardy here ( 0F ). I have for the past two years tried to save the trunk with protection with good success. How ever we have had mild winters the past two winters with the lows only in the teens. I hope this helps you. - Steve +More Steve Kennedy Angier,NC zone 7b At 11:13 AM 1/28/99 -0600, you wrote: >I'm curious to hear of any successes with this species as a permanent >garden plant in 'cool' areas ie. USDA Zones 9 or above. Having gone >through a winter here in England, where even Taro (Colocasia >esculenta) has not died down and is now starting to produce new >leaves, I'm very tempted to try this in a sheltered corner. I >understand the leaves are often killed by frost, but the 'trunk' can >and does survive down to around 27F or even lower. > >I appreciate it probably needs good, hot humid conditions in order to >make up in summer, but my little patch (a very sheltered, south >facing, walled garden in the far south-west) is invariably very warm >and humid throughout the spring, summer and autumn months. Daytime >highs of the mid to upper 80's and night-time lows in the upper 60's >are not at all uncommon even during a comparatively cool summer. >Gardenia jasminoides 'Florida', 'Butterfly gingers' (Hedychiums >coronarium & gardnerianum) and even Christmas (Bracket) Cactus >(Schlumbergera) flourish and flower without any problems > >David Poole >TORQUAY UK >USDA Zone 9b > >

From: "Mr R.a McClure" <Rob.McClure at sci.monash.edu.au> on 1999.02.03 at 04:17:23(2995) > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:17:02 -0600 > From: dave-poole@ilsham.demon.co.uk > Subject: Philodendron selloum +More > To: rob.mcclure@sci.monash.edu.au > Reply-to: aroid-l@mobot.org > I'm curious to hear of any successes with this species as a permanent > garden plant in 'cool' areas ie. USDA Zones 9 or above. Having gone > through a winter here in England, where even Taro (Colocasia > esculenta) has not died down and is now starting to produce new > leaves, I'm very tempted to try this in a sheltered corner. I > understand the leaves are often killed by frost, but the 'trunk' can > and does survive down to around 27F or even lower. > > I appreciate it probably needs good, hot humid conditions in order to > make up in summer, but my little patch (a very sheltered, south > facing, walled garden in the far south-west) is invariably very warm > and humid throughout the spring, summer and autumn months. Daytime > highs of the mid to upper 80's and night-time lows in the upper 60's > are not at all uncommon even during a comparatively cool summer. > Gardenia jasminoides 'Florida', 'Butterfly gingers' (Hedychiums > coronarium & gardnerianum) and even Christmas (Bracket) Cactus > (Schlumbergera) flourish and flower without any problems > Hi David, Fuss not over your P. selloum . I am in zone 9 /10 in Australia with usually cool, wet winters and very hot, dry summers . I have two large selloums outside my office here and they grow like weeds. They face north which means full sun in this hemisphere, (very hot and bone dry in summer) they never get any watering other than rain and I am constantly trimming them back so I can get the car down the driveway. They flower and fruit regularly and provide a terrific launching pad for the possums that thump all over the roof when I am working back late at night ! Your squirrels will learn fast ! I am surprised at how tough these plants are as they are growing in the most un-philodendron like place. Your conditions sound like philo-paradise in comparison. Be warned though, if they like the spot they grow quite large. Cheers, Rob. Rob.McClure Biological Sciences Monash University, Clayton 3168 Victoria AUSTRALIA. Phone:(03)9905.5625 Fax:(03)9905.5613 e-mail: Rob.McClure@sci.monash.edu.au

From: "Petra Schmidt" petra at plantdelights.com> on 2001.12.11 at 15:35:02(7877) Philodendron selloum (now bipinnatifidum) has been in the hort trade for ages...can anyone tell me who supplied the first introductions or where (plant source) it originated? Also, has anyone overwintered it successfully in zones colder than Zone 7b? Has anyone tried? +More Petra

From: Iza & Carol Goroff goroff at idcnet.com> on 2001.12.11 at 20:10:26(7880) I can't answer any of Petra's questions, but the mention of the plant gives me an opportunity to tell of my oldest aroid. I acquired my plant around 1971. It has lived in five different places since, the current location its first greenhouse. It has a stem 20" (50 cm) tall and eleven leaves, each leaf blade about 26" (65 cm) long. Its stem would be much longer except for rotting in the middle on two previous occasions. Although that mecessitated repotting, there was no slowdown in growth since most of its functioning roots were from above the rotted section, many of them circling its pot on the floor. It has bloomed on a few occasions, though not recently. It lives in a 20 gallon terra cotta pot with the bulk of its roots on the greenhouse tile floor. Iza Goroff +More Whitewater Wisconsin USA zone 4b - no chance of any Philodendron surviving winter outside here. Petra Schmidt wrote: > Philodendron selloum (now bipinnatifidum) has been in the hort trade for > ages

From: "brian williams" pugturd50 at hotmail.com> on 2001.12.11 at 21:15:51(7885) Hello Petra. I had an offset of philo selloum survive a few years back. It was an extremely mild winter. But it did lose all its leafs and struggled to come back. +More Have you looked into getting some non aroids? These have large leafs and actually can look very tropical. There are a few other things. One day I will have a list of all my plants and there names and photos on a site. I am slowly working on it. Petasites ligularia gunnera rheum _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2001.12.11 at 23:47:10(7886) Dear Petra, Can you get or do you have Mayo`s 'A Revision of Philodendron subgenus Meconostigma (Araceae)', Kew Bullitin Vol. 46 ( I have a copy) and his 1990 'History and infragenitic nomenclature of Philodendron (Araceae) Kew Bull. 45 ( 1 ): 37-71 ( I do NOT have a copy of this!)? Though he does not give precise dates in his 'revision' paper (it seems that the 1990 paper has more detaile on the introduction dates) , there is enough recorded to know that this species (there is still confusion over exactly how many 'good' species there are in the complex, some w/ green spathes, others w/ maroon spathe exteriors) was in Europe in the early 1800`s, Schott brought back specimens for cultivation to Vienna (Mayo notes that the name had been validly published in 1837), and must have spread to the Americas sometime after that. An interesting observation I have made is that in pre-tissue culture days, several ( ? ) years ago, this plant used to be grown in commercial quantities here in WPB from seed obtained by hand-pollination. The plants thus produced showed quite a wide range of leaf form, differently colored petioles/veins and overall form/shape, all of which were 'lost' once they began to produce them by using just one 'donner' mother plant in tissue culture. In the collection of Jim Enck, a long-time member of the IAS here in WPB, Joep Moonen, (who visited Jim with me a couple/three years ago), was amazed and thrilled to see some of the OLD selections of this now VERY common but 'all the same' plant that Jim had obtained 'way back when' from commercially available plants grown from seed! A couple were FAR superior to the one 'clone' now being produced in mass. Cheers, Julius +More >>Philodendron selloum (now bipinnatifidum) has been in the hort trade for ages...can anyone tell me who supplied the first introductions or where (plant source) it originated? Also, has anyone overwintered it successfully in zones colder than Zone 7b? Has anyone tried? Petra<<

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2001.12.12 at 00:52:30(7889) Dear Iza, Thanks for the story of this old plant! here in Florida, this species grows QUICKLY to a gigantic size, and under the right conditions, planted in good soil next to a palm tree, can be seen with an erect rhizome standing against the palm tree trunk, which it 'embraces' with it`s cable-like roots, to a height of over 15 ft., and a leaf spread of 7-8 ft. If it does not have a tree trunk to support it`s upward growth, it seems 'happy' to grow along the ground, it`s 'head' held vertically, thill the rhizome can be 10 or many more feet long, and about 8" in dia. It can get this large in 10 -15 years. Good growing! Julius +More >>I can't answer any of Petra's questions, but the mention of the plant gives me an opportunity to tell of my oldest aroid. I acquired my plant around 1971. It has lived in five different places since, the current location its first greenhouse. It has a stem 20" (50 cm) tall and eleven leaves, each leaf blade about 26" (65 cm) long. Its stem would be much longer except for rotting in the middle on two previous occasions. Although that mecessitated repotting, there was no slowdown in growth since most of its functioning roots were from above the rotted section, many of them circling its pot on the floor. It has bloomed on a few occasions, though not recently. It lives in a 20 gallon terra cotta pot with the bulk of its roots on the greenhouse tile floor. Iza Goroff Whitewater Wisconsin USA zone 4b - no chance of any Philodendron surviving winter outside here. Petra Schmidt wrote: > Philodendron selloum (now bipinnatifidum) has been in the hort trade for > ages

From: "Clarence Hammer" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2001.12.12 at 20:01:07(7895) Ref Petra's comments. P. selloum is now bipinnatifidum? I'm not aware of this, all my information indicates they have been and are 2 distinct species. Anyone? +More I doubt if selloum could survive 7B or further north without extraordinary measures. Perhaps massive mulching of the root zone, some of the cold protective 'fleeces' and other materials could save a portion of the bottom of the plant to come back the following year. All bets would be off with exceptionally severe winters. Russ.

From: Neil Carroll zzamia at hargray.com> on 2001.12.12 at 23:04:17(7897) Russ, Petra's pretty knowledgable on this stuff. The following is paraphrased from Aroids by Deni Bown: some confusion has existed in the past over P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum....Engler considered them seperate species. the two names have in the past been used to differentiate two different populations (Gottsberger and Amaral 1984) and In 1991 Mayo joined the two into one single species ....P. bippinatifidum is the true name....P. selloum has been reduced into synonomy. Neil +More -----Original Message----- To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:05 PM Subject: Re: Philodendron selloum > Ref Petra's comments. P. selloum is now bipinnatifidum? I'm not aware of >this, all my information indicates they have been and are 2 distinct >species. Anyone? > >I doubt if selloum could survive 7B or further north without extraordinary >measures. Perhaps massive mulching of the root zone, some of the cold >protective 'fleeces' and other materials could save a portion of the bottom >of the plant to come back the following year. All bets would be off with >exceptionally severe winters. > >Russ. >

From: StellrJ at aol.com on 2001.12.13 at 15:44:52(7900) In a message dated Tue, 11 Dec 2001 4:16:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, "brian williams" writes: > I am > slowly working on it. +More > Petasites > ligularia > gunnera > rheum > But isn't Gunnera also tropical? Those others should work, though; Petasites is native along the US Pacific Coast, Rheum (i.e., rhubarb) is from the Himalayas.

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2001.12.13 at 15:46:12(7906) To add to Neil's comments below and Julius' earlier about older collections of this species in Florida, some older FL hort books and trade publications listed both P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum as distinct species. About 20-30 years ago in the FL nursery trade sometimes the names were used almost in a varietal or even cultivar sense. During those years in the hort trade, the P. bipinnatifidum "form" was considered superior and more sought after. I seem to recall from my retail nursery days in the early-mid 1980s that any plant labeled with the name P. bipinnatifidum sold for a higher price than those labeled as P. selloum. Probably some unscrupulous nursery owners capitalized on this and labeled all their seedling plants with this name to garner a few more dollars, other growers actually produced cuttings taken from some select forms and gave them the P. bipinnatifidum name to distinguish them. The latter were far less common in cultivation and quite rightly fetched the highest price. Occasionally some newspaper or magazine article would elaborate on these plants and discuss the various points of difference between the two "forms" in cultivation. Afterwards customers would come in asking for P. bipinnatifidum and would turn up their noses at any plant labeled with the P. selloum name as a "common" seedling of unknown parentage, and less desirable, thus we always tried to keep a small supply of plants, acquired from trusted wholesale sources as cutting-grown P. bipinnatifidum, for our more "discriminating" buyers! In the back nursery area we kept some stock plants of a few superior P. bipinnatifidum forms to propagate for special customers, because we could not always find a wholesale source for the "true" P. bipinnatifidum grown only from cuttings. Later, this P. bipinnatifidum name became lost in the trade and all you could find were the uniform plants labeled as P. selloum. I guess it simply became uneconomical for wholesale growers to produce cuttings of those special forms, so one could no longer find all the variations of this species in nurseries. Donna Atwood +More << some confusion has existed in the past over P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum....Engler considered them separate species. the two names have in the past been used to differentiate two different populations (Gottsberger and Amaral 1984) and In 1991 Mayo joined the two into one single species ....P. bippinatifidum is the true name....P. selloum has been reduced into synonomy. >>

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2001.12.14 at 02:21:18(7908) Dear Petra, Donna and Friends, In the interest of clarity, I will just give a LITTLE more information taken from Simon Mayo`s EXCELLENT paper, "A revision of Philodendron subgenus Meconostigma (Araceae)', published in the Kew Bullitin Vol. 46 ( 4 ), and then give my OPINION (and as we all know, opinions are like noses, EVERYONE has one :--)> ). Dr. Mayo takes great pains to point out that this is a very confused taxon, occuring in a WIDE area of distribution, and may consist of several species, some as yet undescribed. The two main ones in question are P. bipinnatifidium Schott 1832, and P. selloum C. Koch1853 or 1854, (some confusion here). Dr. Mayo writes as follows---'P. bipinnatifidium, as circumscribed here is a very variable taxon in morphology and color of leaf and inflorescence. The main unifying character is the bipinnatifid leaf blade'---he goes on to state--'Like other authors who have studied this species complex in the recent past'---'I have taken a broad view of the species. This seems to be the only practical way of dealing with taxanomic difficulties for which current knowledge does not provide satisfactory soloutions'. He goes on to explain that the original dsecription was by Schott ---(plant probably collected from near Rio de Janero) and that Schott`s manuscript description of 1884 show that his plant had a spathe tube colored purple-brown externally, a gynoceum with a well developed central style dome and the female zone adnate to the spathe for about half it`s length. P. selloum was described by C. Koch (to cut a long story short, it was from cultivated material in Berlin sent to Koch by his friend H. Sello, head gradener at Sans Souci, the Imperial Prussian estate at Potsdam, and Koch did not see fertile material). Dr. Mayo notes that the confusion between these two names may have it`s origin in the professional rivalry between Schott and Koch. Schott left illustrations in his Icones Aroideae of his P. bipinatifidium and P. selloum, and his illus. of P. selloum showed a spathe colored green externally, a pistil with a deep style funnel and NO central dome , and the female zone of the spadix adnate to the spathe for OVER half its length. Engler (1878: 170), who studied Schott`s illustrations, distinguished P. selloum by its green spathe tube longer than the spathe blade, and the entirely adnate female zone. This work by Engler is probably the 'why' of the two names, and when Mayo wrote this paper I am quoting from is when people began considering that the two species were synonomyous. Now for MY opinion ( which is like a nose, etc. etc. etc.). Based on what I have just detailed, I concur with Dr. Mayo that MUCH more study needs to be done with this complex before I can say with certainity whether there are two or even more species involved in this group of broadly distributed plants, BUT based on the features of spathe color (exterior and interior), size of the respective inflorescences, and especially the seemingly major differences in the structure of the female flowers and the length that the female portion of the spadix that is adnate to the spathe, that there probably are at LEAST two species involved here, so as it stands now P. bipinnatifidum and P. selloum can be distinguished one from the other, and in my opinion may eventually be 'ruled' to be two 'good' and different species. The plants that I have studied here in Florida all have an all-green spathe exterior, I have not as yet sen a plant with a purple-brown spathehe exterior (I THINK someone told me there were plants w/ red-brown spathes in collections??). Another 'species' that has been placed into synonomy with P. bipinnatifidium by in Dr Mayo`s in paper is P. pygmaeum Chodat & Vischer 1880 from Paraguay, I THINK I`ve seen a plant of this VERY distinctive small Philodendron, (any of you who were in Miami last Sept. may have seen me on Sat. morning wandering around with a leaf of this plant in my hand). There is a paper in which there must be a discussion on this plant, it is by Dr. Croat and D. Mount. I`d like to read the section about it, if anyone has a copy please contact me, it is--'Croat, T. B. & Mount, D. (1988) The monocotyledons- A Comparative Study. 378 pp., Acadamia Press, London.' This is a MOST interesting discussion, and Donna`s information given below gives me ammunition to go ask my old buddy Jim about! He will remember the names and ways these plants used to be sold in the 'good old days'. ENOUGH! Good growing, Julius Boos +More WPB, Florida ju-bo@msn.com To add to Neil's comments below and Julius' earlier about older collections of this species in Florida, some older FL hort books and trade publications listed both P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum as distinct species. About 20-30 years ago in the FL nursery trade sometimes the names were used almost in a varietal or even cultivar sense. During those years in the hort trade, the P. bipinnatifidum "form" was considered superior and more sought after. I seem to recall from my retail nursery days in the early-mid 1980s that any plant labeled with the name P. bipinnatifidum sold for a higher price than those labeled as P. selloum. Probably some unscrupulous nursery owners capitalized on this and labeled all their seedling plants with this name to garner a few more dollars, other growers actually produced cuttings taken from some select forms and gave them the P. bipinnatifidum name to distinguish them. The latter were far less common in cultivation and quite rightly fetched the highest price. Occasionally some newspaper or magazine article would elaborate on these plants and discuss the various points of difference between the two "forms" in cultivation. Afterwards customers would come in asking for P. bipinnatifidum and would turn up their noses at any plant labeled with the P. selloum name as a "common" seedling of unknown parentage, and less desirable, thus we always tried to keep a small supply of plants, acquired from trusted wholesale sources as cutting-grown P. bipinnatifidum, for our more "discriminating" buyers! In the back nursery area we kept some stock plants of a few superior P. bipinnatifidum forms to propagate for special customers, because we could not always find a wholesale source for the "true" P. bipinnatifidum grown only from cuttings. Later, this P. bipinnatifidum name became lost in the trade and all you could find were the uniform plants labeled as P. selloum. I guess it simply became uneconomical for wholesale growers to produce cuttings of those special forms, so one could no longer find all the variations of this species in nurseries. Donna Atwood<< << some confusion has existed in the past over P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum....Engler considered them separate species. the two names have in the past been used to differentiate two different populations (Gottsberger and Amaral 1984) and In 1991 Mayo joined the two into one single species ....P. bippinatifidum is the true name....P. selloum has been reduced into synonomy. >>

From: "brian williams" pugturd50 at hotmail.com> on 2001.12.14 at 05:24:42(7909) Dear Julius and others. I thought it maybe interesting to know that ALVIM SEIDEL the nursery in Brazil. Has Philo selloum seeds for sell. Not only one form but all these forms. selloum 9.00 +More selloum var compactum 20.00 selloum var Sao Paulo 12.00 Selloum var Urugay 12.00 also bipinnatifidum 8.00 As from reading other e-mails it would be nice to see what a lot of the seedlings would come out to look like. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From: "Clarence Hammer" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2001.12.14 at 05:26:24(7911) Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion. Very interesting, and enlightening. I did not know that selloum/bipinnatifidum were considered the same in any circles, but being 'at large' for my entire 'Aroid life', information has always been hard to come by. Does the selloum variety 'Uruguay' still exist somewhere? My old Exotica references a 'German Selloum' from German seed considered a more graceful form, finely cut and wavy leaf segments. +More What about bipinnatifidum 'Seaside'? or lundii 'Sao Paulo'? Still in cultivation? Petra, where in zone 7B are you with the winter hardy selloum? Are you protecting in any way? Russ.

From: Neil Crafter golfstra at senet.com.au> on 2001.12.14 at 05:57:07(7912) Julius I think Simon also reduced P.mello-barretoanum to synonomy under P.bipinnatifidum. Having only seen photos of this plant I must admit to being a little shocked with this as the leaf form seems substantially different. Have you seen this plant in the flesh? here in Australia all these plants are lumped in as P.selloum but I think they are not all tissue cultured plants as you can still find some with variety in leaf forms. I have a nice one growing here that is more pinnatifidum than "bi"pinnatifidum, as the leaves are cut once but only the merest hint of twice. Still clearly a Meconostigma plant nevertheless. I have just selfed my large bipinnatifiduma nd have quite a few seedlings growing now and I'll be interested to see what variety the seedlings show in leaf form. Also I have never seen a red spathed form out here, or anywhere for that matter. Green rules! So much work to be done by someone and so little time! cheers Neil +More Neil Crafter Adelaide Australia Julius Boos wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: Philodendron selloum > > Dear Petra, Donna and Friends, > > In the interest of clarity, I will just give a LITTLE more information taken > from Simon Mayo`s EXCELLENT paper, "A revision of Philodendron subgenus > Meconostigma (Araceae)', published in the Kew Bullitin Vol. 46 ( 4 ), and > then give my OPINION (and as we all know, opinions are like noses, EVERYONE > has one :--)> ). > Dr. Mayo takes great pains to point out that this is a very confused taxon, > occuring in a WIDE area of distribution, and may consist of several species, > some as yet undescribed. The two main ones in question are P. > bipinnatifidium Schott 1832, and P. selloum C. Koch1853 or 1854, (some > confusion here). > Dr. Mayo writes as follows---'P. bipinnatifidium, as circumscribed here is a > very variable taxon in morphology and color of leaf and inflorescence. The > main unifying character is the bipinnatifid leaf blade'---he goes on to > state--'Like other authors who have studied this species complex in the > recent past'---'I have taken a broad view of the species. This seems to be > the only practical way of dealing with taxanomic difficulties for which > current knowledge does not provide satisfactory soloutions'. He goes on to > explain that the original dsecription was by Schott ---(plant probably > collected from near Rio de Janero) and that Schott`s manuscript description > of 1884 show that his plant had a spathe tube colored purple-brown > externally, a gynoceum with a well developed central style dome and the > female zone adnate to the spathe for about half it`s length. > P. selloum was described by C. Koch (to cut a long story short, it was from > cultivated material in Berlin sent to Koch by his friend H. Sello, head > gradener at Sans Souci, the Imperial Prussian estate at Potsdam, and Koch > did not see fertile material). Dr. Mayo notes that the confusion between > these two names may have it`s origin in the professional rivalry between > Schott and Koch. Schott left illustrations in his Icones Aroideae of his > P. bipinatifidium and P. selloum, and his illus. of P. selloum showed a > spathe colored green externally, a pistil with a deep style funnel and NO > central dome , and the female zone of the spadix adnate to the spathe for > OVER half its length. Engler (1878: 170), who studied Schott`s > illustrations, distinguished P. selloum by its green spathe tube longer than > the spathe blade, and the entirely adnate female zone. This work by Engler > is probably the 'why' of the two names, and when Mayo wrote this paper I am > quoting from is when people began considering that the two species were > synonomyous. > Now for MY opinion ( which is like a nose, etc. etc. etc.). Based on what > I have just detailed, I concur with Dr. Mayo that MUCH more study needs to > be done with this complex before I can say with certainity whether there are > two or even more species involved in this group of broadly distributed > plants, BUT based on the features of spathe color (exterior and interior), > size of the respective inflorescences, and especially the seemingly major > differences in the structure of the female flowers and the length that the > female portion of the spadix that is adnate to the spathe, that there > probably are at LEAST two species involved here, so as it stands now P. > bipinnatifidum and P. selloum can be distinguished one from the other, and > in my opinion may eventually be 'ruled' to be two 'good' and different > species. > The plants that I have studied here in Florida all have an all-green spathe > exterior, I have not as yet sen a plant with a purple-brown spathehe > exterior (I THINK someone told me there were plants w/ red-brown spathes in > collections??). > Another 'species' that has been placed into synonomy with P. bipinnatifidium > by in Dr Mayo`s in paper is > P. pygmaeum Chodat & Vischer 1880 from Paraguay, I THINK I`ve seen a plant > of this VERY distinctive small Philodendron, (any of you who were in Miami > last Sept. may have seen me on Sat. morning wandering around with a leaf of > this plant in my hand). There is a paper in which there must be a > discussion on this plant, it is by Dr. Croat and D. Mount. I`d like to > read the section about it, if anyone has a copy please contact me, it > is--'Croat, T. B. & Mount, D. (1988) The monocotyledons- A Comparative > Study. 378 pp., Acadamia Press, London.' > This is a MOST interesting discussion, and Donna`s information given below > gives me ammunition to go ask my old buddy Jim about! He will remember the > names and ways these plants used to be sold in the 'good old days'. > ENOUGH! > > Good growing, > > Julius Boos > WPB, > Florida > ju-bo@msn.com > > To add to Neil's comments below and Julius' earlier about older collections > of this species in Florida, some older FL hort books and trade publications > listed both P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum as distinct species. About > 20-30 > years ago in the FL nursery trade sometimes the names were used almost in a > varietal or even cultivar sense. During those years in the hort trade, the > P. > bipinnatifidum "form" was considered superior and more sought after. I seem > to recall from my retail nursery days in the early-mid 1980s that any plant > labeled with the name P. bipinnatifidum sold for a higher price than those > labeled as P. selloum. Probably some unscrupulous nursery owners capitalized > on this and labeled all their seedling plants with this name to garner a few > more dollars, other growers actually produced cuttings taken from some > select > forms and gave them the P. bipinnatifidum name to distinguish them. The > latter were far less common in cultivation and quite rightly fetched the > highest price. Occasionally some newspaper or magazine article would > elaborate on these plants and discuss the various points of difference > between the two "forms" in cultivation. Afterwards customers would come in > asking for P. bipinnatifidum and would turn up their noses at any plant > labeled with the P. selloum name as a "common" seedling of unknown > parentage, > and less desirable, thus we always tried to keep a small supply of plants, > acquired from trusted wholesale sources as cutting-grown P. bipinnatifidum, > for our more "discriminating" buyers! In the back nursery area we kept some > stock plants of a few superior P. bipinnatifidum forms to propagate for > special customers, because we could not always find a wholesale source for > the "true" P. bipinnatifidum grown only from cuttings. Later, this P. > bipinnatifidum name became lost in the trade and all you could find were the > uniform plants labeled as P. selloum. I guess it simply became uneconomical > for wholesale growers to produce cuttings of those special forms, so one > could no longer find all the variations of this species in nurseries. > > Donna Atwood<< > > << some confusion has existed in the past over P. selloum and P. > bipinnatifidum....Engler considered them separate species. the two names > have in the past been used to differentiate two different populations > (Gottsberger and Amaral 1984) and In 1991 Mayo joined the two into one > single species ....P. bippinatifidum is the true name....P. selloum has > been > reduced into synonomy. > >>

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2001.12.14 at 15:29:26(7913) Dear Neil, Here is the entire list (abbrevated here by me for space ) given by Simon of Philo. 'sps'. (and I give all the names) he THEN considered as synonmyns of P. bipinnatifidium -- P. bipinnatifidium Schott ex Endlicher [Arum pinnatifidium Vellozo (1831)] [Sphincterostigma bipinnatifidium Schott 1832] P. selloum C. Koch 1853 P. lundii Warming 1867 P. bipinnatifidium Schott ex Endl. var. lundii (Warming) Engl. 1878 P. selloum K. C. Koch var. lundii (Warming) Engl. 1879-80 ?P. pygmaeum Chodat & Vischer 1920 P. mello-barretoanum G. M. Barroso 1957 As is indicated in the paper, this is a COMPLEX of a very variable taxon, so the leaf shape varies a LOT, even here in Florida amongst some of the old, grown-from-seed OR seleted from cuttings specimens. The plants now being sold in bulk from tissue culture are all more or less alike (as one would expect). The illus. of the gynoceum of this 'species' in Simon`s work shows two specimens, he clearly states that they are the extremes of thes 'forms', and MAN are they are VERY different one from the other! I believe eventually lots more work will be done on this species complex. Cheers, Julius +More >>Julius I think Simon also reduced P.mello-barretoanum to synonomy under P.bipinnatifidum. Having only seen photos of this plant I must admit to being a little shocked with this as the leaf form seems substantially different. Have you seen this plant in the flesh? here in Australia all these plants are lumped in as P.selloum but I think they are not all tissue cultured plants as you can still find some with variety in leaf forms. I have a nice one growing here that is more pinnatifidum than "bi"pinnatifidum, as the leaves are cut once but only the merest hint of twice. Still clearly a Meconostigma plant nevertheless. I have just selfed my large bipinnatifiduma nd have quite a few seedlings growing now and I'll be interested to see what variety the seedlings show in leaf form. Also I have never seen a red spathed form out here, or anywhere for that matter. Green rules! So much work to be done by someone and so little time! cheers Neil Neil Crafter Adelaide Australia<< Julius Boos wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:46 AM > Subject: Re: Philodendron selloum > > Dear Petra, Donna and Friends, > > In the interest of clarity, I will just give a LITTLE more information taken > from Simon Mayo`s EXCELLENT paper, "A revision of Philodendron subgenus > Meconostigma (Araceae)', published in the Kew Bullitin Vol. 46 ( 4 ), and > then give my OPINION (and as we all know, opinions are like noses, EVERYONE > has one :--)> ). > Dr. Mayo takes great pains to point out that this is a very confused taxon, > occuring in a WIDE area of distribution, and may consist of several species, > some as yet undescribed. The two main ones in question are P. > bipinnatifidium Schott 1832, and P. selloum C. Koch1853 or 1854, (some > confusion here). > Dr. Mayo writes as follows---'P. bipinnatifidium, as circumscribed here is a > very variable taxon in morphology and color of leaf and inflorescence. The > main unifying character is the bipinnatifid leaf blade'---he goes on to > state--'Like other authors who have studied this species complex in the > recent past'---'I have taken a broad view of the species. This seems to be > the only practical way of dealing with taxanomic difficulties for which > current knowledge does not provide satisfactory soloutions'. He goes on to > explain that the original description was by Schott ---(plant probably > collected from near Rio de Janero) and that Schott`s manuscript description > of 1884 show that his plant had a spathe tube colored purple-brown > externally, a gynoceum with a well developed central style dome and the > female zone adnate to the spathe for about half it`s length. > P. selloum was described by C. Koch (to cut a long story short, it was from > cultivated material in Berlin sent to Koch by his friend H. Sello, head > gardener at Sans Souci, the Imperial Prussian estate at Potsdam, and Koch > did not see fertile material). Dr. Mayo notes that the confusion between > these two names may have it`s origin in the professional rivalry between > Schott and Koch. Schott left illustrations in his Icones Aroideae of his > P. bipinatifidium and P. selloum, and his illus. of P. selloum showed a > spathe colored green externally, a pistil with a deep style funnel and NO > central dome , and the female zone of the spadix adnate to the spathe for > OVER half its length. Engler (1878: 170), who studied Schott`s > illustrations, distinguished P. selloum by its green spathe tube longer than > the spathe blade, and the entirely adnate female zone. This work by Engler > is probably the 'why' of the two names, and when Mayo wrote this paper I am > quoting from is when people began considering that the two species were > synonomyous. > Now for MY opinion ( which is like a nose, etc. etc. etc.). Based on what > I have just detailed, I concur with Dr. Mayo that MUCH more study needs to > be done with this complex before I can say with certainity whether there are > two or even more species involved in this group of broadly distributed > plants, BUT based on the features of spathe color (exterior and interior), > size of the respective inflorescences, and especially the seemingly major > differences in the structure of the female flowers and the length that the > female portion of the spadix that is adnate to the spathe, that there > probably are at LEAST two species involved here, so as it stands now P. > bipinnatifidum and P. selloum can be distinguished one from the other, and > in my opinion may eventually be 'ruled' to be two 'good' and different > species. > The plants that I have studied here in Florida all have an all-green spathe > exterior, I have not as yet seen a plant with a purple-brown spathe > exterior (I THINK someone told me there were plants w/ red-brown spathes in > collections??). > Another 'species' that has been placed into synonomy with P. bipinnatifidium > by in Dr Mayo`s in paper is > P. pygmaeum Chodat & Vischer 1880 from Paraguay, I THINK I`ve seen a plant > of this VERY distinctive small Philodendron, (any of you who were in Miami > last Sept. may have seen me on Sat. morning wandering around with a leaf of > this plant in my hand). There is a paper in which there must be a > discussion on this plant, it is by Dr. Croat and D. Mount. I`d like to > read the section about it, if anyone has a copy please contact me, it > is--'Croat, T. B. & Mount, D. (1988) The monocotyledons- A Comparative > Study. 378 pp., Acadamia Press, London.' > This is a MOST interesting discussion, and Donna`s information given below > gives me ammunition to go ask my old buddy Jim about! He will remember the > names and ways these plants used to be sold in the 'good old days'. > ENOUGH! > > Good growing, > > Julius Boos > WPB, > Florida > ju-bo@msn.com > > To add to Neil's comments below and Julius' earlier about older collections > of this species in Florida, some older FL hort books and trade publications > listed both P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum as distinct species. About > 20-30 > years ago in the FL nursery trade sometimes the names were used almost in a > varietal or even cultivar sense. During those years in the hort trade, the > P. > bipinnatifidum "form" was considered superior and more sought after. I seem > to recall from my retail nursery days in the early-mid 1980s that any plant > labeled with the name P. bipinnatifidum sold for a higher price than those > labeled as P. selloum. Probably some unscrupulous nursery owners capitalized > on this and labeled all their seedling plants with this name to garner a few > more dollars, other growers actually produced cuttings taken from some > select > forms and gave them the P. bipinnatifidum name to distinguish them. The > latter were far less common in cultivation and quite rightly fetched the > highest price. Occasionally some newspaper or magazine article would > elaborate on these plants and discuss the various points of difference > between the two "forms" in cultivation. Afterwards customers would come in > asking for P. bipinnatifidum and would turn up their noses at any plant > labeled with the P. selloum name as a "common" seedling of unknown > parentage, > and less desirable, thus we always tried to keep a small supply of plants, > acquired from trusted wholesale sources as cutting-grown P. bipinnatifidum, > for our more "discriminating" buyers! In the back nursery area we kept some > stock plants of a few superior P. bipinnatifidum forms to propagate for > special customers, because we could not always find a wholesale source for > the "true" P. bipinnatifidum grown only from cuttings. Later, this P. > bipinnatifidum name became lost in the trade and all you could find were the > uniform plants labeled as P. selloum. I guess it simply became uneconomical > for wholesale growers to produce cuttings of those special forms, so one > could no longer find all the variations of this species in nurseries. > > Donna Atwood<< > > << some confusion has existed in the past over P. selloum and P. > bipinnatifidum....Engler considered them separate species. the two names > have in the past been used to differentiate two different populations > (Gottsberger and Amaral 1984) and In 1991 Mayo joined the two into one > single species ....P. bippinatifidum is the true name....P. selloum has > been > reduced into synonomy. > >>

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2001.12.14 at 15:31:58(7914) Dear Russ, I`m sure all of the 'forms' that you remember and mention below are still in cultivation, but I`d GUESS that with the publication of Dr. Mayo`s paper which synonomised many into one (P. bipinnatafidium) that the growers just 'dropped' labeling them, and all have 'fallen' into just one or two names, either P. 'selloum' (the commercial name under which they are sold in bulk) or P. bipinnatifidium, the name that us 'scientifically minded' guys tend to use. A few old-timers like my friend Jim still remember the old forms, and take pains to point them out when you visit!! As Brian mentions, seed of some of these old forms are available from Dr. Seidel in Brazil, I would not mind going in on an order and seeing what we can grow out of them! Good growing, Julius +More >>Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion. Very interesting, and enlightening. I did not know that selloum/bipinnatifidum were considered the same in any circles, but being 'at large' for my entire 'Aroid life', information has always been hard to come by. Does the selloum variety 'Uruguay' still exist somewhere? My old Exotica references a 'German Selloum' from German seed considered a more graceful form, finely cut and wavy leaf segments. What about bipinnatifidum 'Seaside'? or lundii 'Sao Paulo'? Still in cultivation? Petra, where in zone 7B are you with the winter hardy selloum? Are you protecting in any way? Russ.<<

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdel.com> on 2001.12.14 at 15:32:17(7915) Russ: The plant of P. selloum to which Petra alludes is one that I planted nearly 15 years ago when I worked at the NC State Fairgrounds in Raleigh NC. Someone had left the plant after a weekend flea market, so we planted it in our "tropical garden" there, as an after thought. The first year, we mulched it lightly and was surprised when it returned. Since it was large next year, we left it unmulched and have done so ever since. It has been through at least four winters of zero degrees F. After I left eight years ago, the plant has been virtually unattended and almost shaded out, but it is still alive. Since this time, I have tried a couple of locally purchased P. selloum plants, but have had none to survive our winters. I can only imagine that high elevation forms might be quite reliable in zone 7b. > +More >Petra, where in zone 7B are you with the winter hardy selloum? Are you >protecting in any way? > >Russ. > > > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 662-0370 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2001.12.14 at 15:32:32(7916) Dear Aroiders, Just a quick note from a busy man. It seems that at least three species reduced to synonimy under P. bipinnatifidum by Simon are good species: P. bipinnatifidum itself (from Southeastern South America, including Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Southern Brazil and Brazilian shore up to Rio de Janeiro); P. mello-barretoanum (central Brazil, mainly middle to uplands of Goias and Mato Grosso, maybe Bolivia too) and P. lundii (Goi?s, Minas Gerais and Bahia, usually above 800m). As far as I could observe, they are different not only geographically, but also morphologically, but most differences are in the stems and petioles (and also inflorescences), not in their leaves. However, when Simon made his revision of the group, there weren't appropriate collections of all taxa, so most of the plants he could see were true P. bipinnatifidum (including the elusive "P. selloum", that seems to be the same thing anyway). Since then, I could collect a lot of material and look for patterns. I have a paper almost done, probably to be published in the next Aroideana, if I can complete a couple of things. Very best wishes, Eduardo. +More P.S.1. Most P. bipinnatifidum plants from the shore have reddish to maroon spathe ("bipinnatifidum" form), whereas most plants from the country have a plain green spathe ("selloum" form). However, I could find both "forms" in both areas and some areas (like around Sao Paulo city) has both forms in almost equal frequency. P.S.2. Philodendron mello-barretoanum has very robust intravaginal squamules, turning real thorns. >From: Neil Crafter >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: Philodendron selloum >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:57:06 -0600 (CST) > >Julius >I think Simon also reduced P.mello-barretoanum to synonomy under >P.bipinnatifidum. Having only seen photos of this plant I must admit to >being a >little shocked with this as the leaf form seems substantially different. >Have >you seen this plant in the flesh? > >here in Australia all these plants are lumped in as P.selloum but I think >they >are not all tissue cultured plants as you can still find some with variety >in >leaf forms. I have a nice one growing here that is more pinnatifidum than >"bi"pinnatifidum, as the leaves are cut once but only the merest hint of >twice. >Still clearly a Meconostigma plant nevertheless. > >I have just selfed my large bipinnatifiduma nd have quite a few seedlings >growing now and I'll be interested to see what variety the seedlings show >in >leaf form. > >Also I have never seen a red spathed form out here, or anywhere for that >matter. >Green rules! > >So much work to be done by someone and so little time! >cheers >Neil >Neil Crafter >Adelaide Australia > >Julius Boos wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:46 AM > > Subject: Re: Philodendron selloum > > > > Dear Petra, Donna and Friends, > > > > In the interest of clarity, I will just give a LITTLE more information >taken > > from Simon Mayo`s EXCELLENT paper, "A revision of Philodendron subgenus > > Meconostigma (Araceae)', published in the Kew Bullitin Vol. 46 ( 4 ), >and > > then give my OPINION (and as we all know, opinions are like noses, >EVERYONE > > has one :--)> ). > > Dr. Mayo takes great pains to point out that this is a very confused >taxon, > > occuring in a WIDE area of distribution, and may consist of several >species, > > some as yet undescribed. The two main ones in question are P. > > bipinnatifidium Schott 1832, and P. selloum C. Koch1853 or 1854, (some > > confusion here). > > Dr. Mayo writes as follows---'P. bipinnatifidium, as circumscribed here >is a > > very variable taxon in morphology and color of leaf and inflorescence. >The > > main unifying character is the bipinnatifid leaf blade'---he goes on to > > state--'Like other authors who have studied this species complex in the > > recent past'---'I have taken a broad view of the species. This seems to >be > > the only practical way of dealing with taxanomic difficulties for which > > current knowledge does not provide satisfactory soloutions'. He goes >on to > > explain that the original dsecription was by Schott ---(plant probably > > collected from near Rio de Janero) and that Schott`s manuscript >description > > of 1884 show that his plant had a spathe tube colored purple-brown > > externally, a gynoceum with a well developed central style dome and the > > female zone adnate to the spathe for about half it`s length. > > P. selloum was described by C. Koch (to cut a long story short, it was >from > > cultivated material in Berlin sent to Koch by his friend H. Sello, head > > gradener at Sans Souci, the Imperial Prussian estate at Potsdam, and >Koch > > did not see fertile material). Dr. Mayo notes that the confusion >between > > these two names may have it`s origin in the professional rivalry between > > Schott and Koch. Schott left illustrations in his Icones Aroideae of >his > > P. bipinatifidium and P. selloum, and his illus. of P. selloum showed a > > spathe colored green externally, a pistil with a deep style funnel and >NO > > central dome , and the female zone of the spadix adnate to the spathe >for > > OVER half its length. Engler (1878: 170), who studied Schott`s > > illustrations, distinguished P. selloum by its green spathe tube longer >than > > the spathe blade, and the entirely adnate female zone. This work by >Engler > > is probably the 'why' of the two names, and when Mayo wrote this paper I >am > > quoting from is when people began considering that the two species were > > synonomyous. > > Now for MY opinion ( which is like a nose, etc. etc. etc.). Based on >what > > I have just detailed, I concur with Dr. Mayo that MUCH more study needs >to > > be done with this complex before I can say with certainity whether there >are > > two or even more species involved in this group of broadly distributed > > plants, BUT based on the features of spathe color (exterior and >interior), > > size of the respective inflorescences, and especially the seemingly >major > > differences in the structure of the female flowers and the length that >the > > female portion of the spadix that is adnate to the spathe, that there > > probably are at LEAST two species involved here, so as it stands now P. > > bipinnatifidum and P. selloum can be distinguished one from the other, >and > > in my opinion may eventually be 'ruled' to be two 'good' and different > > species. > > The plants that I have studied here in Florida all have an all-green >spathe > > exterior, I have not as yet sen a plant with a purple-brown spathehe > > exterior (I THINK someone told me there were plants w/ red-brown spathes >in > > collections??). > > Another 'species' that has been placed into synonomy with P. >bipinnatifidium > > by in Dr Mayo`s in paper is > > P. pygmaeum Chodat & Vischer 1880 from Paraguay, I THINK I`ve seen a >plant > > of this VERY distinctive small Philodendron, (any of you who were in >Miami > > last Sept. may have seen me on Sat. morning wandering around with a leaf >of > > this plant in my hand). There is a paper in which there must be a > > discussion on this plant, it is by Dr. Croat and D. Mount. I`d like >to > > read the section about it, if anyone has a copy please contact me, it > > is--'Croat, T. B. & Mount, D. (1988) The monocotyledons- A Comparative > > Study. 378 pp., Acadamia Press, London.' > > This is a MOST interesting discussion, and Donna`s information given >below > > gives me ammunition to go ask my old buddy Jim about! He will remember >the > > names and ways these plants used to be sold in the 'good old days'. > > ENOUGH! > > > > Good growing, > > > > Julius Boos > > WPB, > > Florida > > ju-bo@msn.com > > > > To add to Neil's comments below and Julius' earlier about older >collections > > of this species in Florida, some older FL hort books and trade >publications > > listed both P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum as distinct species. About > > 20-30 > > years ago in the FL nursery trade sometimes the names were used almost >in a > > varietal or even cultivar sense. During those years in the hort trade, >the > > P. > > bipinnatifidum "form" was considered superior and more sought after. I >seem > > to recall from my retail nursery days in the early-mid 1980s that any >plant > > labeled with the name P. bipinnatifidum sold for a higher price than >those > > labeled as P. selloum. Probably some unscrupulous nursery owners >capitalized > > on this and labeled all their seedling plants with this name to garner a >few > > more dollars, other growers actually produced cuttings taken from some > > select > > forms and gave them the P. bipinnatifidum name to distinguish them. The > > latter were far less common in cultivation and quite rightly fetched the > > highest price. Occasionally some newspaper or magazine article would > > elaborate on these plants and discuss the various points of difference > > between the two "forms" in cultivation. Afterwards customers would come >in > > asking for P. bipinnatifidum and would turn up their noses at any plant > > labeled with the P. selloum name as a "common" seedling of unknown > > parentage, > > and less desirable, thus we always tried to keep a small supply of >plants, > > acquired from trusted wholesale sources as cutting-grown P. >bipinnatifidum, > > for our more "discriminating" buyers! In the back nursery area we kept >some > > stock plants of a few superior P. bipinnatifidum forms to propagate for > > special customers, because we could not always find a wholesale source >for > > the "true" P. bipinnatifidum grown only from cuttings. Later, this P. > > bipinnatifidum name became lost in the trade and all you could find were >the > > uniform plants labeled as P. selloum. I guess it simply became >uneconomical > > for wholesale growers to produce cuttings of those special forms, so one > > could no longer find all the variations of this species in nurseries. > > > > Donna Atwood<< > > > > << some confusion has existed in the past over P. selloum and P. > > bipinnatifidum....Engler considered them separate species. the two >names > > have in the past been used to differentiate two different populations > > (Gottsberger and Amaral 1984) and In 1991 Mayo joined the two into one > > single species ....P. bippinatifidum is the true name....P. selloum has > > been > > reduced into synonomy. > > >> > Eduardo G. Goncalves Laboratorio de Fitoquimica Depto. de Botanica - IB Universidade de Sao Paulo Caixa Postal 11461 - CEP 05422-970 Sao Paulo - SP - BRAZIL e-mail: edggon@hotmail.com edggon@ib.usp.br Phone: 55 11 3818-7532 FAX : 55 11 3818-7547 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: Arno King arnoking at yahoo.com> on 2001.12.15 at 03:06:33(7917) Some 10 years ago I visited the Seidel Nursery in Corupa, Brazil. Behind the shadehouses, the large arborescent Philodendrons are grown in what I remember to be a large paddock area. There were many plants in this area and there were a lot of different species or forms collected from all around Brazil. Some were very different to anything I had ever seen before.The plants were very large and I was told how they were hand pollinated to set seed. I suspect that there would also be some natural cross pollination ocuuring between plants. I have seen quite a bit of variation in seedlings grown from this seed. I was also told that the Phildendron marketed as 'Xanadu'(also known as 'Winterborn') came up in this seed in a nursery in Perth, Western Australia. A similar plant recently came up in seed grown in a nursery in Wynnum, Brisbane. +More This plant is being marketed as 'Millenium, however it has not proved popular. Although almost identical to 'Xanadu'the leaves are not as regularly placed, so the plant appears untidy. It would be great to cross polinate thes two plants and see what the progeny turn out like. This may also help track down the true identity of these plants. Arno King, Brisbane Australia --- brian williams wrote: > Dear Julius and others. I thought it maybe > interesting to know that ALVIM > SEIDEL the nursery in Brazil. Has Philo selloum > seeds for sell. Not only one > form but all these forms. > selloum 9.00 > selloum var compactum 20.00 > selloum var Sao Paulo 12.00 > Selloum var Urugay 12.00 > > > also > bipinnatifidum 8.00 > > As from reading other e-mails it would be nice to > see what a lot of the > seedlings would come out to look like. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > ===== Arno arnoking@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From: "Clarence Hammer" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2001.12.18 at 05:05:19(7937) Thank you all for the great feedback concerning P. selloum, bipinnatifidum and others. It definitely seems a lot more work on this group is necessary to sort these plants out. The apparent variability of each doesn't help matters. +More Tony, thank you for the info on the selloum mentioned by Petra. Wow, who woulda thunk it.....North Carolina! It's certainly one hardy Philodendron, and is exceptional considering the other plantings have not survived. I would never have thought any Philodendron species would survive 0 degree temperatures with minimal or no protection, even selloum. The fact that it is now 'shaded out' tells me it may have a bit warmer microclimate under a canopy of trees which may help it survive future winters, but will not be good for summer growth in deep shade. How large does this plant get during the summer? 3 or 4 foot leaves, or much smaller? Russ.

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdel.com> on 2001.12.18 at 16:10:29(7940) Russ: Before the shade began to encroach on the planting I mentioned, the P. selloum would reach 2' tall x 4' wide each season. The fact that it >is now 'shaded out' tells me it may have a bit warmer microclimate under a >canopy of trees which may help it survive future winters, but will not be >good for summer growth in >deep shade. > >How large does this plant get during the summer? 3 or 4 foot leaves, or >much smaller? > >Russ. > > > > > Tony Avent +More Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 662-0370 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent

From: StellrJ at aol.com on 2001.12.18 at 16:10:52(7942) In a message dated Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:06:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Clarence Hammer" writes: The fact that it > is now 'shaded out' tells me it may have a bit warmer microclimate under a > canopy of trees which may help it survive future winters, but will not be > good for summer growth in > deep shade. +More > Hmmm... now if only there were "reverse-deciduous" trees; then, it could be under tree canopy in winter, and have sun in summer. Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large

From: "Clarence Hammer" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2001.12.21 at 14:30:57(7968) Thanks for that info, Tony. In spite of it's obvious hardiness, if you ever want to give this plant a climate more to it's liking, I'll be happy to pay the +More postage and will plant it on my 1 1/2 acre with my other selloums. Russ. > Before the shade began to encroach on the planting I mentioned, the P. > selloum would reach 2' tall x 4' wide each season. > three times" - Avent

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