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 This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.

  What happened to CATE-Araceae site?
From: Siddharth Naveenachandran <n.c.siddharth at gmail.com> on 2020.02.05 at 20:37:59(24313)
Hi All,

Does anyone know what happened to the
http://araceae.e-monocot.org/ site? It was my go to site for botanical descriptions and references. I mailed their helpdesk at enquiries@emonocot.org and it bounced back.

For those of you not aware of this site you can refer to this reference on it: http://www.aroid.org/aroideana/getarticle.php?key=MDM4NzEwNg==D

--

Cheers

Sid

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From: Tom Croat <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2020.02.06 at 03:49:32(24314)
Dear Sid:

The CATE site was completely abandoned by KEW and I am uncertain why. I think that it may have been closed for security reasons but I have also heard that it was a difficult site to maintain.
I remember Anna Haigh telling me that they were intending to come up with another format and she gave a talk about this in the Monocots Conference in New York. For me the greatest loss was that the CATE site was also where they housed the Lucid keys to both
Anthurium and Philodendron. I hope eventually to be able to come up with a similar interactive website, either through MO or the IAS website to make those keys, and others that I have developed, available to the public.

Tom

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From: Greg Ruckert <greg at alpacamanagement.com> on 2020.02.06 at 04:27:34(24315)
As one of the data inputers, problems started arising when the UK
Govt reduced funding to Kew. I stopped working at that point and
do not know what has happened since. A lot of hours went into the
project.

Greg

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From: Anna Haigh <aroidhaigh at gmail.com> on 2020.02.06 at 11:42:34(24316)
Dear Sid and all,

This site has recently gone down, and we are just looking into what the problem is. In the meantime, you can access it here: http://araceae-e--monocot-org.scratchpads.eu/

Unfortunately the eMonocot site which held the keys went a few years ago, some of the data from that site (minus the keys and some other stuff) is now on http://powo.science.kew.org/

But the site you first mention has a much richer data and we hope to keep it going in some form.

I hope this helps, and it is always good to hear that it is still used. It helps the case to keep it going, so many thanks!

All the best,

Anna

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From: Nils Weessies <nilsweessies at gmail.com> on 2020.02.06 at 12:01:35(24317)
Dear Anna,

Are the Lucid keys accessible online in any way? Many of the new world aroids here in botanical gardens in thd Netherlands are mis- or unlabeled.

Kind regards,

Nils

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From: Tom Croat <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2020.02.09 at 17:58:30(24318)
Dear Nils:

I can answer this question. When Kew stopped supporting the CATE site originally, specifically the Lucid Keys, I adopted the keys and have been adding species to those keys for many years so
that for example we have added about a thousand species to the Anthurium key. So the existing CATE key would no longer be reliable at all. The problem is that most of the species are not yet published so the key has not yet been published.

Tom

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From: Nils Weessies <nilsweessies at gmail.com> on 2020.02.09 at 20:24:24(24319)
Dear Tom,

Thank you for your answer, I hope the key will one day be open-source, to make it easier for people like me to identify or describe species.

I still have the Anthurium seeds for you, please email me so I can send them to you. They seem to germinate easily but not all berries are fertile. The mucus around the seed seems to extra sticky when comparing to other Anthuriums.

Kind regards,

Nils

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From: Tom Croat <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2020.02.10 at 04:07:58(24320)
Dear Nils:

You are certainly correct about this key being made available. Certainly this is my intention and I will probably put it up at least on the MO website if we can figure out how to make it happen
and workable. I would like to have it on the IAS website as well because it will attract more attention from avid aroid growers. It will also have free standing descriptions and images of all the species.

Do you need anything special to be able to send me seed. I would just put the seeds into a small padded envelope and mark it scientific materials-no commercial value. It is not likely to be intercepted.
Actually clean seed from cultivated sources is perfectly legal but if you did so indicate they actually might go for inspection and they are so inefficient that the seeds would die before they would be sent to me. So it would be better not to mark them as
seeds.

Tom

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From: <n.c.siddharth at gmail.com> on 2020.02.13 at 05:46:19(24321)
I see that my reply did not get posted for some reason.

Thank you Tom, Greg and Anna for your responses! The alternative link is certainly helpful and glad that it exists. Yes, we certainly use this site often especially with a lot of new species being introduced to the hobby these days thanks to the heightened interest in aroids in horticulture now. We find ourselves searching for botanical descriptions to substantiate the claims made by growers and sellers. Of course, it would help to have the full set of pictures/illustrations and commentary from the publication included in the emonocot site but I understand it will be a lot more overhead to what is already a cumbersome process, I am sure. We truly appreciate the existence of this site. 😊

I agree with Nils on having public access to the Lucid key. 😃

Thanks

Sid

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From: Simon Mayo <S.Mayo at kew.org> on 2020.02.25 at 14:11:56(24323)
Dear All

As Anna Haigh has already informed, the Cate Araceae site is up and running at
http://araceae-e--monocot-org.scratchpads.eu/

It is indeed unfortunate that the illustrated keys to Philodendron, Anthurium and all African aroid species, which were developed by Anna Haigh and
her team and Marcela Mora, are no longer available on the site. Some years ago we gave a copy of the Anthurium key to Tom and he has greatly expanded it as he mentioned in his recent email.

Keeping these institutional taxonomic websites going is not an easy matter, and inevitably administrative and personnel changes can have severe impacts,
as in this case. Unfortunately the key decisions for long term maintenance, being institutional, are not in the hands of the taxonomists, particularly Anna, who leads the project, who have dedicated years of effort to creating the content. However, it is
not true that Kew has stopped supporting CATE Araceae, as it still forms part of Anna’s and my own activities at Kew.

Greg is right to have been disappointed at the sudden changes to CATE that have happened. His contributions have been enormous and we are extremely
grateful for them. CATE is has always been open to aroid contributors, and as long as it is kept online we shall try our best to maintain and develop it.

Best wishes

Simon Mayo

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From: Simon Mayo <simonjosephmayo at gmail.com> on 2020.07.13 at 07:48:32(24355)
Dear All

This is to bring you up to date with CATE Araceae. Anna Haigh and myself are pleased to be able to let you know that CATE Araceae has been reinstated with the original address, which should make it easier to find on Google, by just googling Cate Araceae. The current address is:

http://cate-araceae.myspecies.info/

If you use the previous address I announced back in February (http://araceae-e--monocot-org.scratchpads.eu/) you should be redirected automatically to the new (original) address.

It is still a work in progress and will always be so. There is much updating to do. The site is maintained on the servers of the Natural History Museum London, as part of the Scratchpads project for e-taxonomy (http://scratchpads.eu/).

Best wishes

Simon Mayo and Anna Haigh

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From: "D. Christopher Rogers" <branchiopod at gmail.com> on 2020.07.13 at 15:38:54(24356)
Thank you!! This is awesome!!!

On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 at 10:34, Simon Mayo wrote:

Dear All

This is to bring you up to date with CATE Araceae. Anna Haigh and myself are pleased to be able to let you know that CATE Araceae has been reinstated with the original address, which should make it easier to find on Google, by just googling Cate Araceae. The current address is:

http://cate-araceae.myspecies.info/

If you use the previous address I announced back in February (http://araceae-e--monocot-org.scratchpads.eu/) you should be redirected automatically to the new (original) address.

It is still a work in progress and will always be so. There is much updating to do. The site is maintained on the servers of the Natural History Museum London, as part of the Scratchpads project for e-taxonomy (http://scratchpads.eu/).

Best wishes

Simon Mayo and Anna Haigh

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From: Greg Ruckert <greg at alpacamanagement.com> on 2020.07.13 at 21:12:15(24357)
Hopefully this means all our work is not lost.

Greg Ruckert

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From: Siddharth Naveenachandran <n.c.siddharth at gmail.com> on 2020.07.14 at 01:37:35(24358)
This is creat news! Thank you, Simon and Anna!

You had mentioned in one of your earlier replies that CATE is open to aroid
contributors. Does it mean that aroiders, like me, can help with
updating/maintaining it? We can help with some of the maintenance at least
if that is an option. For example, I had noticed that the description for
Rhaphidophora tetrasperma is incorrect. It is speaking about another
species.

Thanks
Sid

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From: Simon Mayo <simonjosephmayo at gmail.com> on 2020.07.14 at 05:51:34(24359)
Dear Greg

All the content that you so generously contributed should be there. I just searched your name on the site and there are over 1000 entries! The site has been very quiet for the last few years. Its future currently depends on the goodwill of the Natural History Museum of London, who also serve hundreds of other taxonomic websites like CATE on their Scratchpads project, run by Dr Vince Smith (http://scratchpads.eu/). CATE has from the beginning, back in about 2004, been a collaboration between Kew and the NHM London. We are hopeful that we now have a few trouble-free years ahead of us. I think the concept of a taxonomic website run by a global community of taxonomists is still a bit of a novelty. In the end, only institutions can guarantee them as permanent fixtures, but the whole point of websites like CATE is that they are open to all bona fide researchers and I think that this can be a major security problem for individual institutions. The basic concept of the original CATE team was that in the future, taxonomic revisions of organisms will be websites rather than paper-published, and they would usually need to be the work of international teams rather than just one or two individuals, in order to reach and maintain high quality. This is quite an idealistic view, and there is still some way to go before this becomes the default way of doing taxonomy. However, there are indications that things are moving a bit. See the recent paper here https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000736

All the best

Simon

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From: Simon Mayo <simonjosephmayo at gmail.com> on 2020.07.14 at 06:42:17(24360)
Dear Sid

Thank you very much for your kind offer to help. All that is needed is to
create a new account on the site (Log in/Create new account). We will then
authorize you and you will be able to add new content. Learning to use the
software can be a bit of a challenge, but there are various aids available
on the Scratchpads site ( http://scratchpads.eu/support/training/material )
and you can always ask us. Greg Ruckert is also very experienced with the
site and has contributed a very substantial amount of content.

All the best
Simon M and Anna H

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From: Marcus Nadruz Coelho <mnadruz at jbrj.gov.br> on 2020.07.14 at 12:18:34(24361)
Olá Simon,


Grande notícia.

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