Blue Anthuriums

From: Susan B <honeybunny442 at yahoo.com> on 2011.11.12 at 00:25:24(22263) Now they're going too far! ugh. ---2036203160-596441079-1321057524=:41770 _______________________________________________ HTML +More Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ---2036203160-968999306-1321057524=:41770--

From: Kyle Baker <kylefletcherbaker at yahoo.com> on 2011.11.13 at 11:28:41(22266) But wait until you see the Canary day glo yellow ones!!!!!!! Wal-marts eat your heart out Mr. Kyle Fletcher Baker, MCN Maine Zone 5 HTML +More --- On Fri, 11/11/11, Susan B wrote: Now they're going too far! ugh. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ---428857371-506051196-1321183721=:11001-- --============== 91687608927543500==

From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2011.11.13 at 12:41:51(22267) Dear Susan, These are white, green or pink Anthuriums watered with a pigment, the same they do to the blue roses, Dendranthemas and other pot plants. The colour lasts until the spathes wither, at home when it blooms again, you will see the real colour. So far nobody has done an aroid that blooms blue, although some species of Amorphophallus have pretty blue berries. Marek HTML +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan B To: Aroid L Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 1:25 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4014 - Release Date: 11/13/11 ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01CCA209.FF823330-- --==============�17664141720799143==

From: The Silent Seed <santoury at aol.com> on 2011.11.13 at 12:47:40(22269) Holy cow! Haven't seen that yet.... oh boy... But then again, those blue Phalaenopsis are "real" - I wonder if these are? ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- HTML +More Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Susan B To: Aroid L Sent: Sat, Nov 12, 2011 6:54 pm Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ----------MB_8CE7019908F72AA_2540_C7326_webmail-d157.sysops.aol.com-- --==============H06144111590074226==

From: Corey W <cewickliffe at gmail.com> on 2011.11.13 at 21:08:41(22270) Are those dyed? I walked into a home depot recently to see a whole selection of what are clearly moth orchids "dyed" blue. I remember something about giving them dye in the water to get them to do that in the past, but these significantly blue flowers make me wonder what they are doing now... Not that these plants are meant to live beyond a limited flowering period anyways (sad enough) but I wonder how many unsuspecting owners get them to bloom again only to find out they are white! The plant version of injected flourescent dye glass fish and tattooed platies from the fish world. Makes me sad. Corey HTML +More On Nov 12, 2011 11:54 PM, "Susan B" wrote: Now they're going too far! ugh. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --20cf307f37c4a7332804b1a4282e-- --==============�03955720919340080==

From: The Silent Seed <santoury at aol.com> on 2011.11.14 at 04:59:20(22272) I actually think those blue Phal's are "real" - from what I have read - don't hold it against me though - I didn't research it fully. Watered/sprayed with pigment? Interesting - never heard that one before. It reminds me of when I was a little boy, and my father showed me how to dye celery - by putting celery stalks into a glass of water with blue, red, etc, food coloring - it was fun! Jude HTML +More ______________________________________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you want to receive my plant newsletters via email? santoury@aol.com The Silent Seed - Rare and Unusual Plants ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Corey W To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Sun, Nov 13, 2011 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Are those dyed? I walked into a home depot recently to see a whole selection of what are clearly moth orchids "dyed" blue. I remember something about giving them dye in the water to get them to do that in the past, but these significantly blue flowers make me wonder what they are doing now... Not that these plants are meant to live beyond a limited flowering period anyways (sad enough) but I wonder how many unsuspecting owners get them to bloom again only to find out they are white! The plant version of injected flourescent dye glass fish and tattooed platies from the fish world. Makes me sad. Corey On Nov 12, 2011 11:54 PM, "Susan B" wrote: Now they're going too far! ugh. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ----------MB_8CE70A14DFC0851_1340_102DC2_webmail-m153.sysops.aol.com-- --==============�01461081685729024==

From: Susan B <honeybunny442 at yahoo.com> on 2011.11.14 at 05:01:00(22273) Yes, this is the same proprietary treatment that makes the blue orchids. Supposedly it is a little more than the old "put the white carnation in the food dye" trick. From what I understand the first flowers on the orchid are dark blue, the next set lighter- the next lighter yet. They eventually get back to white but it takes a while- Rijinplants I think is the name of the company, they licensed the treatment and are making the blue and also yellow anthuriums. Still, ick. HTML +More From: Marek Argent To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Dear Susan, These are white, green or pink Anthuriums watered with a pigment, the same they do to the blue roses, Dendranthemas and other pot plants. The colour lasts until the spathes wither, at home when it blooms again, you will see the real colour. So far nobody has done an aroid that blooms blue, although some species of Amorphophallus have pretty blue berries. Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan B To: Aroid L Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 1:25 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4014 - Release Date: 11/13/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ---578491218-446090275-1321246860=:74458-- --==============w65308068367662357==

From: "Denis" <denis at skg.com> on 2011.11.14 at 13:32:15(22274) Where was this picture taken? What company is selling these? I know there are labs out there now using gene spicing from other plants to try to get blue flowers on anthurium but I do not think they are far enough along to get these results. If they were they would have done it on a large flower anthurium they use for cut flower because that is where the money is. Bill Rotolante From: aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Susan B HTML +More Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 7:25 PM To: Aroid L Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CCA2A7.EBCB0210-- --==============761830357811384767==

From: Corey W <cewickliffe at gmail.com> on 2011.11.15 at 05:28:24(22279) Jude - I don't doubt that there might be some real blues (or getting close to it!) given some of the deep purples I've seen the varieties have, but I think if you saw them in person you'd realize these were not giving some orchid breeder out there the hybridizer happy dance. It looks off, like the flowers were painted with watercolor or something! It was more glaring due to the "natural" untreated hybrids right next to them. Susan- thanks for the info on the company. Interesting that the treatment lasts so long! I agree, ick no matter the flower :( also kind of feels like cheating? I want some yellow micro sinningias (gesneriads), but I don't want to treat them to get it. I'd rather do the happy hybridizer dance after a long time trying to mix and mold genetics that may not want to play my game. HTML +More On Nov 15, 2011 12:16 AM, "Susan B" wrote: Yes, this is the same proprietary treatment that makes the blue orchids. Supposedly it is a little more than the old "put the white carnation in the food dye" trick. From what I understand the first flowers on the orchid are dark blue, the next set lighter- the next lighter yet. They eventually get back to white but it takes a while- Rijinplants I think is the name of the company, they licensed the treatment and are making the blue and also yellow anthuriums. Still, ick. From: Marek Argent To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Dear Susan, These are white, green or pink Anthuriums watered with a pigment, the same they do to the blue roses, Dendranthemas and other pot plants. The colour lasts until the spathes wither, at home when it blooms again, you will see the real colour. So far nobody has done an aroid that blooms blue, although some species of Amorphophallus have pretty blue berries. Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan B To: Aroid L Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2011 1:25 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4014 - Release Date: 11/13/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --20cf3071cf8aa2f7d104b1bf415a-- --==============x22959796440336788==

From: Kyle Baker <kylefletcherbaker at yahoo.com> on 2011.11.15 at 09:41:56(22281) I came across an article pertaining to it in the Greenhouse Grower E-zine. They also hyped up the Blue mystique orchid...both of which are specifically designed to the design/monetary challenged...(Wal-mart shoppers) but its not said so blatantly...the Anthurium is a smaller flowered form so as not to be so obtrusive in the home decor. I don't remember who is selling these but it doesn't surprise me as several years ago folks might remember the lovely pointsettias that were dyed and glittered......and look at what they've done with some of the new Philodendrons....and they're real plants...... Mr. Kyle Fletcher Baker, MCN Maine Zone 5 HTML +More --- On Mon, 11/14/11, Denis wrote: Where was this picture taken? What company is selling these? I know there are labs out there now using gene spicing from other plants to try to get blue flowers on anthurium but I do not think they are far enough along to get these results. If they were they would have done it on a large flower anthurium they use for cut flower because that is where the money is. Bill Rotolante From: aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Susan B Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 7:25 PM To: Aroid L Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ---548145779-670765898-1321350116=:93707-- --==============�19266490925505542==

From: hermine <hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2011.11.16 at 17:20:37(22288) At 09:28 PM 11/14/2011, you wrote: >Jude - I don't doubt that there might be some real blues (or getting >close to it!) given some of the deep purples I've seen the varieties >have, but I think if you saw them in person you'd realize these were >not giving some orchid breeder out there the hybridizer happy dance. >It looks off, like the flowers were painted with watercolor or >something! It was more glaring due to the "natural" untreated >hybrids right next to them. chemicals aside, I SMELL MENDACITY in the form of PHOTOSHOP! I never seed that colour blue on a flower in my entire life of peering at blue flowers, especially among flowers where blue is notably absent like roses. I got an idea. why do not the people just get spray cans and make the flowers whatever they like. hermine +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Corey W <cewickliffe at gmail.com> on 2011.11.16 at 20:18:06(22290) Some of the new philodendrons? Dare I ask? I am a species fan, but still love some hybrids as they can bring out some real quirks of the genetics (as long as you preserve the species as well!) but these "short cuts" just for a buck (dyes, glitter, paint, etc) really horrify me a lot of times. It makes me wish people would just buy the fake ones that look like that. I feel sad that people can't even like the plant for itself as a living thing :( Now even plants must be modified beyond nature just to add to our sensory overload! Corey HTML +More On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:41 AM, Kyle Baker wrote: I came across an article pertaining to it in the Greenhouse Grower E-zine. They also hyped up the Blue mystique orchid...both of which are specifically designed to the design/monetary challenged...(Wal-mart shoppers) but its not said so blatantly...the Anthurium is a smaller flowered form so as not to be so obtrusive in the home decor. I don't remember who is selling these but it doesn't surprise me as several years ago folks might remember the lovely pointsettias that were dyed and glittered......and look at what they've done with some of the new Philodendrons....and they're real plants...... Mr. Kyle Fletcher Baker, MCN Maine Zone 5 --- On Mon, 11/14/11, Denis wrote: Where was this picture taken? What company is selling these? I know there are labs out there now using gene spicing from other plants to try to get blue flowers on anthurium but I do not think they are far enough along to get these results. If they were they would have done it on a large flower anthurium they use for cut flower because that is where the money is. Bill Rotolante From: aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Susan B Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 7:25 PM To: Aroid L Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --20cf3071c69441e7c704b1dfcdeb-- --==============�13011313205407515==

From: Steve Marak <samarak at gizmoworks.com> on 2011.11.16 at 20:55:39(22291) Hermine, I can't vouch for any other photos, but the ones I sent to the list of the Phalaenopsis orchids I took myself, and they are absolutely untouched by Photoshop or any other editing tool, except to crop them down to reduce the size. How appropriate your last comment is ... years ago I worked for a Major Retailer, and they had a "sample store" where employees could buy merchandise samples of all sorts. One day a friend and I walked up to see a buying frenzy - people carrying out large (5 gallon, at least) pots of what looked to me exactly like a typical big box store Spathiphyllum, except that the spathes were bright red! People were buying two or three of them at a time, exclaiming about how beautiful and unusual they were. When I got closer, I could see that the spathes had in fact been spray painted red. It would be funnier if it weren't sad. Steve +More On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, hermine wrote: > At 09:28 PM 11/14/2011, you wrote: > > >Jude - I don't doubt that there might be some real blues (or getting > >close to it!) given some of the deep purples I've seen the varieties > >have, but I think if you saw them in person you'd realize these were > >not giving some orchid breeder out there the hybridizer happy dance. > >It looks off, like the flowers were painted with watercolor or > >something! It was more glaring due to the "natural" untreated > >hybrids right next to them. > > > chemicals aside, I SMELL MENDACITY in the form of PHOTOSHOP! I never > seed that colour blue on a flower in my entire life of peering at > blue flowers, especially among flowers where blue is notably absent like roses. > > I got an idea. why do not the people just get spray cans and make the > flowers whatever they like. > > hermine > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Corey W <cewickliffe at gmail.com> on 2011.11.16 at 21:08:27(22292) I can also speak for Steve's Phalaenopsis photos, as I walked into Home Depot last week to see the same blue orchids. I should go back at see if I can take a pic with my phone. They didn't have the purple/red ones there, instead sitting them next to more typical Phal mass market varieties. As for how "real" they are, it's just a real life "photoshop" effort. When I originally saw the glitter covered dyed poinsettias I thought they were fake plants until I touched their leaves :( I agree with Steve - funnier if it wasn't so sad. Corey HTML +More On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Steve Marak wrote: Hermine, I can't vouch for any other photos, but the ones I sent to the list of the Phalaenopsis orchids I took myself, and they are absolutely untouched by Photoshop or any other editing tool, except to crop them down to reduce the size. How appropriate your last comment is ... years ago I worked for a Major Retailer, and they had a "sample store" where employees could buy merchandise samples of all sorts. One day a friend and I walked up to see a buying frenzy - people carrying out large (5 gallon, at least) pots of what looked to me exactly like a typical big box store Spathiphyllum, except that the spathes were bright red! People were buying two or three of them at a time, exclaiming about how beautiful and unusual they were. When I got closer, I could see that the spathes had in fact been spray painted red. It would be funnier if it weren't sad. Steve On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, hermine wrote: > At 09:28 PM 11/14/2011, you wrote: > > >Jude - I don't doubt that there might be some real blues (or getting > >close to it!) given some of the deep purples I've seen the varieties > >have, but I think if you saw them in person you'd realize these were > >not giving some orchid breeder out there the hybridizer happy dance. > >It looks off, like the flowers were painted with watercolor or > >something! It was more glaring due to the "natural" untreated > >hybrids right next to them. > > > chemicals aside, I SMELL MENDACITY in the form of PHOTOSHOP! I never > seed that colour blue on a flower in my entire life of peering at > blue flowers, especially among flowers where blue is notably absent like roses. > > I got an idea. why do not the people just get spray cans and make the > flowers whatever they like. > > hermine > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --bcaec5014dc158f25c04b1e08153-- --==============R86164209915528311==

From: "Sherry Gates" <TheTropix at msn.com> on 2011.11.16 at 22:14:57(22294) ROFL!!! P.T. Barnum & Sons Inc. Ol' P.T. would have loved that story! Sherry HTML +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Marak To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums How appropriate your last comment is ... years ago I worked for a Major Retailer, and they had a "sample store" where employees could buy merchandise samples of all sorts. One day a friend and I walked up to see a buying frenzy - people carrying out large (5 gallon, at least) pots of what looked to me exactly like a typical big box store Spathiphyllum, except that the spathes were bright red! People were buying two or three of them at a time, exclaiming about how beautiful and unusual they were. When I got closer, I could see that the spathes had in fact been spray painted red. It would be funnier if it weren't sad. Steve On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, hermine wrote: > At 09:28 PM 11/14/2011, you wrote: > > >Jude - I don't doubt that there might be some real blues (or getting > >close to it!) given some of the deep purples I've seen the varieties > >have, but I think if you saw them in person you'd realize these were > >not giving some orchid breeder out there the hybridizer happy dance. > >It looks off, like the flowers were painted with watercolor or > >something! It was more glaring due to the "natural" untreated > >hybrids right next to them. > > > chemicals aside, I SMELL MENDACITY in the form of PHOTOSHOP! I never > seed that colour blue on a flower in my entire life of peering at > blue flowers, especially among flowers where blue is notably absent like roses. > > I got an idea. why do not the people just get spray cans and make the > flowers whatever they like. > > hermine > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l ------=_NextPart_000_00A9_01CCA47A.E30DCE80-- --=============="77791862455212714==

From: "Carol McCarthy" <Carol.McCarthy at mail.wvu.edu> on 2011.11.17 at 14:04:03(22299) I completely agree with Corey. Carol M. HTML +More >>> Corey W 11/16/2011 3:18 PM >>> Some of the new philodendrons? Dare I ask? I am a species fan, but still love some hybrids as they can bring out some real quirks of the genetics (as long as you preserve the species as well!) but these "short cuts" just for a buck (dyes, glitter, paint, etc) really horrify me a lot of times. It makes me wish people would just buy the fake ones that look like that. I feel sad that people can't even like the plant for itself as a living thing :( Now even plants must be modified beyond nature just to add to our sensory overload! Corey --=__PartB49B3243.1__=-- --=__PartB49B3243.0__=

From: "Denis" <denis at skg.com> on 2011.11.17 at 17:31:07(22301) WOW! That’s really ugly. Denis HTML +More Silver Krome Gardens, Inc From: aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Susan B Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 7:25 PM To: Aroid L Subject: [Aroid-l] Blue Anthuriums Now they're going too far! ugh. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CCA524.C9991400-- --==============27961696788628311==

From: Zanezirklejr at aol.com on 2011.11.23 at 15:59:11(22381) LOL they put blue dye in the water. --part1_251b4.49aa6403.3bfe724f_boundary-- --==============196473002790943990== HTML +More

From: "J. Agoston" <agoston.janos123 at gmail.com> on 2011.11.23 at 20:38:13(22389) Here is a small article about dye infused anthuriums. http://www.greenhousegrower.com/news/?storyidP84 Janos HTML +More Z5a, Hungary --f46d043891e5198a5104b26ce62c-- --==============X30442842164386805==

From: Kyle Baker <kylefletcherbaker at yahoo.com> on 2011.11.24 at 11:57:04(22397) That is the article I'd read...it amazes me the hype given to the Industry over such schlock as this....but in the Cities they just eat this stuff up.... Mr. Kyle Fletcher Baker, MCN Maine Zone 5 HTML +More --- On Wed, 11/23/11, J. Agoston wrote: Here is a small article about dye infused anthuriums. http://www.greenhousegrower.com/news/?storyidP84 Janos Z5a, Hungary -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --894005245-1977636035-1322135824=:53287-- --==============�34099880314788360==

From: hermine <hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2011.11.24 at 17:48:50(22402) At 12:38 PM 11/23/2011, J. Agoston wrote: Here is a small article about dye infused anthuriums. http://www.greenhousegrower.com/news/?storyidP84 PORNOGRAPHY! FILTH! hermine HTML +More --=====================_8528078==.ALT-- --============== 47506857540533219==

From: Don Martinson <llmen at wi.rr.com> on 2011.11.24 at 18:36:23(22405) Well, of course, the “Industry”’s mail objective is to sell merchandise. Don Martinson HTML +More Milwaukee, Wisconsin mailto:llmen@wi.rr.com On 11/24/11 5:57 AM, "Kyle Baker" wrote: That is the article I'd read...it amazes me the hype given to the Industry over such schlock as this....but in the Cities they just eat this stuff up.... Mr. Kyle Fletcher Baker, MCN Maine Zone 5 --B_3404982983_23192656-- --==============F47818750847815182==

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