More on Monstera dilacerata

From: Michael Pascall <mickpascall at hotmail.com> on 2010.04.10 at 08:11:36(20810) Did a few more searches today for this sp. And found it is still a valid species on GRIN .. Taxon: +More Monstera dilacerata K. Koch Genus: Monstera Family: Araceae subfamily: Monsteroideae tribe: Monstereae. Nomen number: 312844 Place of publication: A. C. H. Braun et al. App. gen. sp. nov. 5. 1855 Name verified on: 14-Oct-1987 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Last updated: 06-Nov-2006 Species priority site is: Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (MIA). It is still listed on Tropicos as well . So goes to show you cannot believe everything you hear or read .. Is it just that it has not been updated ? Or mistaken identity with mature foliage that got this statment .. "The wantonly and inventively misapplied Monstera dilacerata (K. Koch & Sel lo) K. Koch is revealed to be a synonym of the Asian Epipremnum pinnatum ( L.) Engl. and the obscure Monstera pinnatipartita Schott is neotypified and resurrected for one of the four Costa Rican spp. included under M. dila cerata in Madison's generic revision (Contr. Gray Herb. 207: 1-100. 1977). The redundant combination Monstera dissecta (Schott) Croat & Grayum (1987) is corrected to M. dissecta (Schott) N. E. Br. ex Donn. Sm. (1899). No illu strations. " I cannot wait for the next revision . _________________________________________________________________ Need a new place to live? Find it on Domain.com.au http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/ --_e4c14125-c81a-402a-910f-a399bacade2a_ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --==============a67957280982877610==--

From: Michael Pascall <mickpascall at hotmail.com> on 2010.04.10 at 08:11:36(20811) Did a few more searches today for this sp. And found it is still a valid species on GRIN .. Taxon: Monstera dilacerata K. Koch Genus: Monstera Family: Araceae subfamily: Monsteroideae tribe: Monstereae. Nomen number: 312844 HTML +More Place of publication: A. C. H. Braun et al., App. gen. sp. nov. 5. 1855 Name verified on: 14-Oct-1987 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Last updated: 06-Nov-2006 Species priority site is: Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (MIA). It is still listed on Tropicos as well . So goes to show you cannot believe everything you hear or read .. Is it just that it has not been updated ? Or mistaken identity with mature foliage that got this statment .. "The wantonly and inventively misapplied Monstera dilacerata (K. Koch & Sello) K. Koch is revealed to be a synonym of the Asian Epipremnum pinnatum  (L.) Engl., and the obscure Monstera pinnatipartita Schott is neotypified and resurrected for one of the four Costa Rican spp. included under M. dilacerata in Madison's generic revision (Contr. Gray Herb. 207: 1-100. 1977). The redundant combination Monstera dissecta (Schott) Croat & Grayum (1987) is corrected to M. dissecta (Schott) N. E. Br. ex Donn. Sm. (1899). No illustrations. " I cannot wait for the next revision . Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?--_e4c14125-c81a-402a-910f-a399bacade2a_----==============a67957280982877610=

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2010.04.11 at 17:09:17(20818) _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com +More http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --------------050505000009070601030901--

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2010.04.11 at 17:09:17(20819) I am no expert on this, I just rely on those that are. Tom will tell you TROPICOS is not kept up to date as is CATE. Hemostly relies on CATE or the World Checklist and frequently refers meto one or the other. Mike Grayum is quite the expert on Monstera so my suggestionwould be if you don't believe the info on CATE then contact Tom, Simon,Mike or Eduardo. I just do my best to follow their lead. Steve HTML +More Michael Pascall wrote: Dida few more searches today for this sp. And found it is still a valid species on GRIN .. Taxon: Monstera dilacerata K. Koch Genus: Monstera Family: Araceaesubfamily: Monsteroideaetribe: Monstereae. Nomen number: 312844 Place of publication: A. C. H. Braun et al., App. gen. sp.nov. 5. 1855 Name verified on: 14-Oct-1987 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Lastupdated: 06-Nov-2006 Species priority site is: Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (MIA). It is still listed on Tropicos as well . So goes to show you cannotbelieve everything you hear or read .. Is it just that it has not beenupdated ? Or mistaken identity with mature foliage that got this statment .. "The wantonly and inventively misapplied Monstera dilacerata (K. Koch& Sello) K. Koch is revealed to be a synonym of the AsianEpipremnum pinnatum (L.) Engl., and the obscure Monsterapinnatipartita Schott is neotypified and resurrected for one of thefour Costa Rican spp. included under M. dilacerata in Madison's genericrevision (Contr. Gray Herb. 207: 1-100. 1977). The redundantcombination Monstera dissecta (Schott) Croat & Grayum (1987) iscorrected to M. dissecta (Schott) N. E. Br. ex Donn. Sm. (1899). Noillustrations. " I cannot wait for the next revision . Find it on Domain.com.au Needa new place to live? _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --------------050505000009070601030901

From: Peter Boyce <phymatarum at googlemail.com> on 2010.04.12 at 09:30:18(20826) Dear Michael, I’m by no means an authority on Monstera, and you must check with Tom on this, but reading through Madison’s synonymy and excluding dilacerata and its homotypical synonyms AND assuming that the description he gives is truly only a single species (far from the case in many of his taxa) AND allowing for the fact that Madison’s revision covers barely a third of the species that probably exist in Monstera AND there are also some blunders in the work, the next available name is indeed M. pinnatipartita. Neotypified means that the all typical material cited when the name was published in destroyed (or believed so) and that a new type has been chosen to represent the taxon. Very best Peter +More From: Michael Pascall [mailto:mickpascall@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 5:19 PM To: phymatarum@googlemail.com Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata OK , so what is the species pictured as M dilacerata in Madisons revision ? Because M siltepecana mature foliage is perforated and does not look anything like the incised leaf pictured for M dilacerata there . Also pictures I have of the underneath of a mature leaf of dilacerata shows two ribs , and I am pretty certain Epipremnum pinnatum only has one . OH I thought this was going to aroid-l but I see I am replying to you Peter ,, after reading the below , I think I am grasping this a bit now . If neotypified means what I think , that is it is now a species and not a synonym . So is it now Monstera pinnatipartita ? Michael Pascall, _____ From: phymatarum@googlemail.com To: Steve@ExoticRainforest.com; Thomas.Croat@mobot.org; phymatarum@googlemail.com; S.Mayo@kew.org CC: mickpascall@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:00:37 +0800 Dear All, Monstera dilacerata is DEFINITELY conspecific with Epipremnum pinnatum. I sunk it! Scindapsus dilaceratus C. Koch & Sello, Ind. Sem. Hort. Bot. Berol., App. (1853) 5. — Monstera dilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) C. Koch, Ind. Sem. Hort. Berol., App. (1855) 5. — Tornelia dilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) Schott, Prodr. Syst. Aroid. (1860) 356. — Type: Cultivated Berlin Botanic Garden (B† holo; K iso), syn. nov. The above is cut and pasted from: Boyce (1998): The Genus Epipremnum Schott (Araceae–Monsyeroideae–Monstereee) in West and Central Malesia, Blumea 43: 183–213 Very best Peter From: ExoticRainforest [mailto:Steve@ExoticRainforest.com] Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 12:03 PM To: Tom Croat; Peter Boyce; Simon Mayo Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata Tom, I tried for several days to help Mic Pascall understand that Monstera dilacerata is no longer an accepted name with little success. He wrote to me several times this week and appears to feel this plant is in fact a Neotropical plant and as far as I know Mike Madison may have observed it.in the wild. Mike at least does show an illustration of it on one page of his revision along with a discussion and TROPICOS still has it as a good name. CATE says it is now a synonym of Epipremnum pinnatum as does Mike Grayum in the quote which Mic used on Aroid l (in red below). That quote came from MOBOT: http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/research/edge/jan98/jan98not.shtml I realize Mic feels he is right but unless someone is about to reveal something new, Monstera dilecerata appears to have been described from a cultured specimen, perhaps incorrectly. I started to respond to his Aroid l post but since I am obviously not an authority on any of this, a response that would best come from you, Pete (since he known Rhapidophora) or Simon. I just wanted you to know where he got his quote since he sent it to me this past week trying to explain I was wrong (maybe I am). I did a major search until I found the source. I am copying this to Pete and Simon since I'd really like to see this one resolved. The plant I have as Monstera siltepecana is the one that started all of this. My plant was ID'd by Dylon Hannon as a juvenile but has grown substantially since then. It is developing fenestrations but so far has not begun to morph. The blades are about 10 inches long. If my plant is not M. siltepecana I will remove the page from the web. You looked at this once before but were unsure of the juvenile photos. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Monstera%20siltepecana.%20pc.html See you in less than two weeks with Joep in tow! Steve Michael Pascall wrote: Did a few more searches today for this sp. And found it is still a valid species on GRIN .. Taxon =scie nt> : Monstera dilacerata K. Koch Genus: Monstera Family: Araceae subfamily: Monsteroideae tribe: Monstereae. Nomen number: 312844 Place of publication: A. C. H. Braun et al., App. gen. sp. nov. 5. 1855 Name verified on: 14-Oct-1987 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Last updated: 06-Nov-2006 Species priority site is: Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (MIA ). It is still listed on Tropicos as well . So goes to show you cannot believe everything you hear or read .. Is it just that it has not been updated ? Or mistaken identity with mature foliage that got this statment .. "The wantonly and inventively misapplied Monstera dilacerata (K. Koch & Sello) K. Koch is revealed to be a synonym of the Asian Epipremnum pinnatum (L.) Engl., and the obscure Monstera pinnatipartita Schott is neotypified and resurrected for one of the four Costa Rican spp. included under M. dilacerata in Madison's generic revision (Contr. Gray Herb. 207: 1-100. 1977). The redundant combination Monstera dissecta (Schott) Croat & Grayum (1987) is corrected to M. dissecta (Schott) N. E. Br. ex Donn. Sm. (1899). No illustrations. " I cannot wait for the next revision . _____ Meet local singles online. Browse profiles for FREE! ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CADA65.D53AE800 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --==============09937157632394094==--

From: Peter Boyce <phymatarum at googlemail.com> on 2010.04.12 at 09:30:18(20827) Dear Michael, I’m by no means an authority on Monstera, and you mustcheck with Tom on this, but reading through Madison’s synonymy and excluding dilacerataand its homotypical synonyms AND assuming that the description he gives istruly only a single species (far from the case in many of his taxa) AND allowingfor the fact that Madison’s revision covers barely a third of the species thatprobably exist in Monstera AND there are also some blunders in the work,the next available name is indeed M. pinnatipartita. Neotypified means that the all typical material cited when thename was published in destroyed (or believed so) and that a new type has been chosento represent the taxon. Very best Peter HTML +More From: Michael Pascall[mailto:mickpascall@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 5:19 PM To: phymatarum@googlemail.com Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata OK , so what is the species pictured as Mdilacerata in Madisons revision ? Because M siltepecana mature foliage isperforated and does not look anything like the incised leaf pictured for Mdilacerata there . Also pictures I have of the underneath of a mature leaf ofdilacerata shows two ribs , and I am pretty certain Epipremnum pinnatum onlyhas one . OH I thought this was going to aroid-l but I see I am replying to you Peter ,,after reading the below , I think I am grasping this a bit now . If neotypified means what I think , that is it is now a species and not asynonym . So is it now Monstera pinnatipartita ? Michael Pascall, From: phymatarum@googlemail.com To: Steve@ExoticRainforest.com; Thomas.Croat@mobot.org;phymatarum@googlemail.com; S.Mayo@kew.org CC: mickpascall@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:00:37 +0800 Dear All, Monstera dilacerata is DEFINITELY conspecificwith Epipremnum pinnatum. I sunk it! ScindapsusdilaceratusC. Koch & Sello, Ind. Sem. Hort. Bot. Berol., App. (1853) 5. — Monsteradilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) C. Koch, Ind. Sem. Hort. Berol., App.(1855) 5. — Tornelia dilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) Schott,Prodr. Syst. Aroid. (1860) 356. — Type: Cultivated Berlin Botanic Garden (B†holo; K iso), syn. nov. The above is cut and pasted from: Boyce (1998): The Genus Epipremnum Schott (Araceae–Monsyeroideae–Monstereee) in West and Central Malesia, Blumea 43: 183–213 Verybest Peter From: ExoticRainforest[mailto:Steve@ExoticRainforest.com] Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 12:03 PM To: Tom Croat; Peter Boyce; Simon Mayo Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata Tom,I tried for several days to help Mic Pascall understand that Monsteradilacerata is no longer an accepted name with little success. Hewrote to me several times this week and appears to feel this plant is in fact aNeotropical plant and as far as I know Mike Madison may have observed it.in thewild. Mike at least does show an illustration of it on one page of hisrevision along with a discussion and TROPICOS still has it as a goodname. CATE says it is now a synonym of Epipremnum pinnatum as doesMike Grayum in the quote which Mic used on Aroid l (in red below). Thatquote came from MOBOT: http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/research/edge/jan98/jan98not.shtml I realize Mic feels he is right but unless someone is about to reveal somethingnew, Monstera dilecerata appears to have been described from a culturedspecimen, perhaps incorrectly. I started to respond to his Aroid l post but since I am obviously not anauthority on any of this, a response that would best come from you, Pete (sincehe known Rhapidophora) or Simon. I just wanted you to know wherehe got his quote since he sent it to me this past week trying to explain I waswrong (maybe I am). I did a major search until I found the source. I am copying this to Pete and Simon since I'd really like to see this oneresolved. The plant I have as Monstera siltepecana is the one thatstarted all of this. My plant was ID'd by Dylon Hannon as a juvenile buthas grown substantially since then. It is developing fenestrations but sofar has not begun to morph. The blades are about 10 inches long. Ifmy plant is not M. siltepecana I will remove the page from the web. You looked at this once before but were unsure of the juvenile photos. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Monstera%20siltepecana.%20pc.html See you in less than two weeks with Joep in tow! Steve Michael Pascall wrote: Did a few more searches today for this sp. And found it is still a valid species on GRIN .. Taxon: Monsteradilacerata K. Koch Genus: Monstera Family: Araceae subfamily: Monsteroideaetribe: Monstereae. Nomen number: 312844 Place of publication: A. C. H. Braun et al., App. gen. sp. nov. 5. 1855 Name verified on: 14-Oct-1987 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Lastupdated: 06-Nov-2006 Species priority site is: Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (MIA). It isstill listed on Tropicos as well . So goes to show you cannot believeeverything you hear or read .. Is it just that it has not been updated ? Or mistaken identity with mature foliage that got this statment .. "The wantonly and inventively misapplied Monsteradilacerata (K. Koch & Sello) K. Koch is revealed to be a synonym of theAsian Epipremnum pinnatum (L.) Engl., and the obscure Monsterapinnatipartita Schott is neotypified and resurrected for one of the four CostaRican spp. included under M. dilacerata in Madison's generic revision (Contr.Gray Herb. 207: 1-100. 1977). The redundant combination Monstera dissecta(Schott) Croat & Grayum (1987) is corrected to M. dissecta (Schott) N. E.Br. ex Donn. Sm. (1899). No illustrations. " Icannot wait for the next revision . Meetlocal singles online. Browse profiles for FREE! ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CADA65.D53AE800----==============09937157632394094=

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