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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
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From: Jeremy P <drplantman at gmail.com> on 2009.10.06 at 23:09:15(20161)
Hiya Aroid-ers,
Just after some suggestions about Cyrtosperma growing media (for C. johnstonii in particular). I've got them in a heated glasshouse (16C minimum) with high humidity (+85%) and am looking to have said aroid of choice standing in a large cement urn full of water - the growing crown will be above the waterline, but the bulk of the media and pot will be submerged.
Any suggestions welcome, and thanks in advance!
Jeremy
| HTML +More |
RBG Melbourne
Australia
--000e0cd34c78b7406e04754c51a2----==============34612090326556046= |
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From: Peter Boyce <phymatarum at googlemail.com> on 2009.10.08 at 06:50:17(20164)
HiJeremy,
VITALthat the water remains fresh, ideally with constant movement.
Peter
| HTML +More |
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy P
Sent: 07 October 2009 07:09
To: Discussion of aroids
Subject: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Hiya Aroid-ers,
Just after some suggestions about Cyrtosperma growing media (for C. johnstoniiin particular). I've got them in a heated glasshouse (16C minimum) with highhumidity (+85%) and am looking to have said aroid of choice standing in a largecement urn full of water - the growing crown will be above the waterline, butthe bulk of the media and pot will be submerged.
Any suggestions welcome, and thanks in advance!
Jeremy
RBG Melbourne
Australia
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CA4826.AA165D70----==============600475294527084405= |
|
From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.10.08 at 10:35:46(20165)
Dear Jeremy,
If almost the entire pot will be submerged, then your potting/growing medium must be all coarse sand! Any ''potting soil'' which you then submerge will rot, killing your plant. Both Fairchild Gardens in Miami and the late Dr. Monroe Birdsey used this ''pure coarse sand'' in their pots which were completely submerged in large tanks/pools which contained MANY fish, the fishs waste provided the necessary fertilizer.
See my article on growing Urospathas (a Neotropical genus much like the Asian Cyrtospermas) in Aroideana Vol. 16, pgs. 33-36.
I also grew many Cyrtosperma sps, and the method has to be the same.
I learned the hard way (experience) and lost several irreplaceable specimens from having the ''soil'' rot when the pot was submerged. When the dead plant was un-potted, the rotten soil smelt like a corpse.
Good luck. Write to me off-l and I`ll explain (if you`d like me to) on another method where only the bottom 3" or so of the pot is submerged, and inside this portion of the pot is only drainage rock/material, NO SOIL!
Good Growing,
Julius Boos
| HTML +More |
WPB, FLORIDA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:09:15 +1100
From: drplantman@gmail.com
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Hiya Aroid-ers,
Just after some suggestions about Cyrtosperma growing media (for C. johnstonii in particular). I've got them in a heated glasshouse (16C minimum) with high humidity (+85%) and am looking to have said aroid of choice standing in a large cement urn full of water - the growing crown will be above the waterline, but the bulk of the media and pot will be submerged.
Any suggestions welcome, and thanks in advance!
Jeremy
RBG Melbourne
Australia
--_372939bd-1c94-44cf-9b1e-f19a7b1ebe31_----============== 48563257578014459= |
|
From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2009.10.09 at 01:46:50(20168)
Half coarse sand, half peat. Thats what i grow most of my submersed aroids in and they do fine. Keep the bottom of the pot filled about 1/4 way up with lava rock and make sure the waterline doesnt go above the rocks.
Thanks,
| HTML +More |
Michael Mattlage--part1_c65.572389d5.37fff00a_boundary----==============A87021991028003917= |
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From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2009.10.09 at 01:49:44(20169)
Jeremy, I believe the Atlanta Botanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I can remember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though...
Thanks,
| HTML +More |
Michael Mattlage--part1_c34.61b17274.37fff0b8_boundary----==============&93037845771044435= |
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From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.10.09 at 11:16:07(20170)
Dear All, Pete,
A memory that just popped into my now-sometimes-forgetful ''chemo brain''--- The late Dr. Birdsey used to grow his Aquatics (Typhonodorum, Urospathas, Lasias, etc.) in clay pots in LARGE square concrete ''vats'', maybe 5' X 5' X 3' deep. There was no water movement in his set-up. Only the lower petioles of the Urospathas would emerge above the water`s surface, and the pseudo-''trunk'' of the Typhonodorums started just above the water-line. This way of growing aqatics persists today at the Fairchild Gardens in Miami, last month we observed a local aquatic aroid, Peltandra, being grown with it`s pot completely submerged in the large ''pond''/fish tank to the R. of the entrance of the main display hall. Their HUGE Cyrtosperma johnstonii AND a Montrichardia arboria (thorny ''trunks''/rhizomes) used to sit in completely submerged pots in the large fish ''pond'' as you entered the rare plant house near the resturant. I do believe there was some sort of pump providing some water movement at the Fairchild Gardens set-ups.
What I forgot to mention was that Monroe ''confessed'' to me that he would ''cheat'' by burying one or two (no more!) of the hard, solid tree fertilizer tablets about 4"-5" deep in the sand of the pots, the warning on the fert. tablets said/warned that they were toxic to fish, but Monroe had worked out that just a couple did no harm to his HUGE populations of his beautiful sword-tail and platy fish which he kept and fed in his tanks around his potted plants for the benifit of their waste products as plant food. The fert. tablets gave his plants an additional ''boost'' in their growth.
Good Growing,
Julius. | HTML +More |
From: phymatarum@googlemail.com
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:50:17 +0800
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
HiJeremy,
VITALthat the water remains fresh, ideally with constant movement.
Peter
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy P
Sent: 07 October 2009 07:09
To: Discussion of aroids
Subject: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Hiya Aroid-ers,
Just after some suggestions about Cyrtosperma growing media (for C. johnstoniiin particular). I've got them in a heated glasshouse (16C minimum) with highhumidity (+85%) and am looking to have said aroid of choice standing in a largecement urn full of water - the growing crown will be above the waterline, butthe bulk of the media and pot will be submerged.
Any suggestions welcome, and thanks in advance!
Jeremy
RBG Melbourne
Australia
--_6a26487b-0a11-4970-a04f-86366222f644_----==============s87183188915977455= |
|
From: "John Criswick" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2009.10.09 at 15:48:55(20172)
For some years I havehad a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which isabove ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in anotherpond, with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanentlydamp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would notseem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide the ultimate/optimumof conditions.
In the attached photoyou can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in thesame soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it.
John.
| HTML +More |
From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 20099:50 PM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...
Jeremy, I believe the Atlanta Botanical Gardens grew avery large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I can remember right) a largerock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moistbut not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totallysubmerge the roots though...
Thanks,
Michael Mattlage
Novirus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/0918:33:00
------=_NextPart_001_0512_01CA48D6.7D255400--------=_NextPart_000_0511_01CA48D6.7D255400 |
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From: "John Criswick" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2009.10.09 at 15:53:05(20173)
Well I’ve just readthis Julius, after posting my own experience with C. johnstonii. I am amazed. AmI just lucky? It’s certainly not hard to grow, rather it is, as they sayhere, “hard to dead” !
John.
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of ju-bo@msn.com
| HTML +More |
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 20096:36 AM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...
Dear Jeremy,
If almost the entire pot will be submerged, then your potting/growing mediummust be all coarse sand! Any ''potting soil'' which you then submergewill rot, killing your plant. Both FairchildGardens in Miami and the late Dr. Monroe Birdsey usedthis ''pure coarse sand'' in their pots which were completely submerged inlarge tanks/pools which contained MANY fish, the fishs waste provided thenecessary fertilizer.
See my article on growing Urospathas (a Neotropical genus much like the AsianCyrtospermas) in Aroideana Vol. 16, pgs. 33-36.
I also grew many Cyrtosperma sps, and the method has to be the same.
I learned the hard way (experience) and lost several irreplaceable specimens fromhaving the ''soil'' rot when the pot was submerged. When the dead plantwas un-potted, the rotten soil smelt like a corpse.
Good luck. Write to me off-l and I`ll explain (if you`d like me to)on another method where only the bottom 3" or so of the pot is submerged,and inside this portion of the pot is only drainage rock/material, NO SOIL!
Good Growing,
Julius Boos
WPB, FLORIDA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:09:15 +1100
From: drplantman@gmail.com
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Hiya Aroid-ers,
Just after some suggestions about Cyrtosperma growing media (for C. johnstoniiin particular). I've got them in a heated glasshouse (16C minimum) with highhumidity (+85%) and am looking to have said aroid of choice standing in a largecement urn full of water - the growing crown will be above the waterline, butthe bulk of the media and pot will be submerged.
Any suggestions welcome, and thanks in advance!
Jeremy
RBG Melbourne
Australia
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/09 18:33:00
------=_NextPart_000_0516_01CA48D7.12212110----==============Y52203207814770524= |
|
From: "John Criswick" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2009.10.11 at 17:56:43(20174)
Corrections, beforeanyone else points it out !
typhonodOrum (typo)
ornatA (mycomputer changes final A’s to E’s [ not attuned to the Latintongue] and I didn’t read through before sending.)
| HTML +More |
From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of John Criswick
Sent: Friday, October 09, 200911:49 AM
To: 'Discussion of aroids'
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...
For some years I havehad a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which isabove ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in another pond,with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanently dampsoil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would not seemthat it needs to be in moss, although that might provide the ultimate/optimumof conditions.
In the attached photoyou can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in thesame soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it.
John.
From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 20099:50 PM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...
Jeremy, I believe the Atlanta Botanical Gardens grew avery large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I can remember right) a largerock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moistbut not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totallysubmerge the roots though...
Thanks,
Michael Mattlage
Novirus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/0918:33:00
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2427 - Release Date: 10/11/09 06:39:00
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01CA4A7A.ACA2B3D0----==============741032961199777387= |
|
From: Adam Black <epiphyte1 at earthlink.net> on 1970.01.01 at 00:00:00(20175)
I don't recall if anyone has mentioned it yet, but has anyone tried the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I would imagine these would be beneficial to allow for better circulation through the pot and media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so would think they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a Montrichardia in need of repotting and I am going to give it a try.
Adam
| HTML +More |
-----Original Message-----
From: John Criswick
Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of aroids'
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
For some years I have had a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which is above ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in another pond, with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanently damp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would not seem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide the ultimate/optimum of conditions.
In the attached photo you can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in the same soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it.
John.
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:50 PM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Jeremy, I believe the Atlanta Botanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I can remember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though...
Thanks,
Michael Mattlage
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/09 18:33:00
--==============01712199403140573= |
|
From: "John Criswick" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2009.10.12 at 19:02:41(20177)
I have had very variedsuccess with Nymphaeas. The books say large containers with no holes andNO animal manure; only good topsoil. Then you have to keep giving fertilizer(the Nymphaea fertilizer is EXPENSIVE) or the plants start decreasing in size.
But I observed that ayellow nymphaea which had grown over the edge of the pot, had sent roots spreadingin all directions in the gunk on the concrete floor of the pond (largely fish excrement). And the lily went wild! Huge leaves and flowers.
So I started puttingnymphaeas in fairly wide, but very shallow plastic containers, reasoning thatthe roots like the aeration on the surface of the soil medium. I use cat littertrays or shallow “wash pans” (pre-washing machine). Inthe bottom I put 4 inches of well-rotted pig manure, topped by 4 inches ofloam. I plant the nymphaea in the centre and cover the loam withsand. Then I gently submerge the container in the 18 inch deep pond, but notkeeping the crown 6 to 8 inches below the water surface, as the books tell youto do.
I consistently getgood results that last for many, many months without adding more pig manure. | HTML +More |
From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Adam Black
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:22AM
To: Discussion of aroids
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...
I don't recall if anyone has mentioned it yet,but has anyone tried the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I wouldimagine these would be beneficial to allow for better circulation through thepot and media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so wouldthink they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a Montrichardia in needof repotting and I am going to give it a try.
Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: John Criswick
Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of aroids'
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing mediasuggestions...
For some years I havehad a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which isabove ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in anotherpond, with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanentlydamp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would notseem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide theultimate/optimum of conditions.
In the attached photoyou can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in thesame soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it.
John.
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] OnBehalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 20099:50 PM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...
Jeremy, I believe the AtlantaBotanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I canremember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though...
Thanks,
Michael Mattlage
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/0918:33:00
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.10/2429 - Release Date: 10/12/09 04:01:00
------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01CA4B4D.0DC32BE0----==============Q35578520765156957= |
|
From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.10.12 at 20:01:05(20178)
Dear Adam,
Go for it! Let us know how they do!
Good Growing.
Julius
| HTML +More |
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:22:12 -0400
From: epiphyte1@earthlink.net
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
I don't recall if anyone has mentioned it yet, but has anyone tried the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I would imagine these would be beneficial to allow for better circulation through the pot and media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so would think they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a Montrichardia in need of repotting and I am going to give it a try.
Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: John Criswick
Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of aroids'
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
For some years I have had a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which is above ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in another pond, with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanently damp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would not seem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide the ultimate/optimum of conditions.
In the attached photo you can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in the same soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it.
John.
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:50 PM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Jeremy, I believe the Atlanta Botanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I can remember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though...
Thanks,
Michael Mattlage
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/09 18:33:00
--_5015451e-15bc-41b8-92e2-73d81aebbe69_----==============78482698729027753= |
|
From: STARSELL at aol.com on 2009.10.16 at 13:57:30(20184)
John,
I have grow water lilies and Lotus for decades using water lily
pots. There are many sizes available of these from suppliers
such as "Lilypons".
| HTML +More |
Also, while I'm not advising on a medium for aquatic aroids, I
can confidently report one of the best media for Nymphaea or
Lotus is the heavy red clay soil of the US Southeast. Also, the
muck in the pond is called muck and made up of more than the
fish waste ... the roots of my plants love it as well when it has
accumulated enough :-) .
We cover the top of the clay soil in the pots with gravel. The aroids
along the margins thrive in this.
Have you tried these water gardening techniques and have you
read any of the information from Lilypons?
I would love to hear.
Alison
In a message dated 10/15/2009 12:30:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, criswick@spiceisle.com writes:
I have had very varied success with Nymphaeas. The books say large containers with no holes and NO animal manure; only good topsoil. Then you have to keep giving fertilizer (the Nymphaea fertilizer is EXPENSIVE) or the plants start decreasing in size.
But I observed that a yellow nymphaea which had grown over the edge of the pot, had sent roots spreading in all directions in the gunk on the concrete floor of the pond (largely fish excrement). And the lily went wild! Huge leaves and flowers.
So I started putting nymphaeas in fairly wide, but very shallow plastic containers, reasoning that the roots like the aeration on the surface of the soil medium. I use cat litter trays or shallow “wash pans” (pre-washing machine). In the bottom I put 4 inches of well-rotted pig manure, topped by 4 inches of loam. I plant the nymphaea in the centre and cover the loam with sand. Then I gently submerge the container in the 18 inch deep pond, but not keeping the crown 6 to 8 inches below the water surface, as the books tell you to do.
-------------------------------1255701450----==============W91857259225889595= |
|
From: "John Criswick" <criswick at spiceisle.com> on 2009.10.18 at 20:42:43(20191)
Yes Alison I have manyyears ago grown nymphaeas in Lilypons tubs and fertilised with Lilypons fertilizertablets for nymphaeas. I had good results but the fertilizer tabletsneeded to be applied too often and I have a million other plants to lookafter. The shallower tubs are good, and similar to the washpans I amusing. Both the washpans and the pig manure are far cheaper than Lilypons products.
John.
From:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of STARSELL@aol.com
| HTML +More |
Sent: Friday, October 16, 20099:58 AM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtospermagrowing media suggestions...
John,
I have grow water lilies and Lotus fordecades using water lily
pots. There are many sizesavailable of these from suppliers
such as "Lilypons".
Also, while I'm not advising on a mediumfor aquatic aroids, I
can confidently report one of the bestmedia for Nymphaea or
Lotus is the heavy red clay soil of theUS Southeast. Also, the
muck in the pond is called muck and madeup of more than the
fish waste ... the roots of my plantslove it as well when it has
accumulated enough :-) .
We cover the top of the clay soil in thepots with gravel. The aroids
along the margins thrive in this.
Have you tried these water gardeningtechniques and have you
read any of the information fromLilypons?
I would love to hear.
Alison
In a message dated 10/15/2009 12:30:00A.M. Central Daylight Time, criswick@spiceisle.com writes:
I have had very varied success with Nymphaeas. The books saylarge containers with no holes and NO animal manure; only good topsoil. Then you have to keep giving fertilizer (the Nymphaea fertilizer is EXPENSIVE)or the plants start decreasing in size.
But I observed that a yellow nymphaea which had grown over the edgeof the pot, had sent roots spreading in all directions in the gunk on theconcrete floor of the pond (largely fish excrement). And the lily wentwild! Huge leaves and flowers.
So I started putting nymphaeas in fairly wide, but very shallowplastic containers, reasoning that the roots like the aeration on the surfaceof the soil medium. I use cat litter trays or shallow “washpans” (pre-washing machine). In the bottom I put 4 inches ofwell-rotted pig manure, topped by 4 inches of loam. I plant the nymphaeain the centre and cover the loam with sand. Then I gently submerge thecontainer in the 18 inch deep pond, but not keeping the crown 6 to 8inches below the water surface, as the books tell you to do.
------=_NextPart_000_008A_01CA5012.05EB4AA0----==============12644866766019104= |
|
From: Dan Levin <levin at pixar.com> on 2009.10.22 at 05:58:36(20198)
Adam,
I've been growing aquatic aroids in plastic mesh pots set
into a pond for many years now. The pond is inside my
heated greenhouse (in the SF Bay Area) and the water
is further heated by a immersion/ aquarium heater and
constantly circulated with a submersible pump with the
return to the pond flowing over a small waterfall.
As you posited: water/ O2 circulation inside mesh pots
does appear better compared with using conventional
nursery pots for this application. I offer this assessment
based upon faster growth rates and reduced die-back
of new growth (i.e. sometimes a new shoot will rot out)
in my given conditions.
The media mix I use in my mesh pots:
4 - washed Monterey sand (#2/12 screen)
2- pumice
| HTML +More |
1- red lava (5/16" clean)
1- coarse/ chunk peat moss (Sunshine, blue grade)
Good light, good air circulation and regular fertilization
with majors AND minors are also key to good culture.
The one major downside to using mesh pots: Aquatic
plant roots are quite brittle- so repotting is not all that
practical, since much of the root system will naturally
be growing out through the holes at the sides/ bottom
and easily snapped off if you monkey with things much.
I suppose one could always cut a mesh pot away from
it's denizen and attempt a new/ larger pot but it wouldn't
be pretty. Especially if prickles are involved (e.g. Lasia,
some Cyrtosperma, etc).
I've personally opted to not repot my aquatics at all.
I simply let them be. My media is 90% inert anyway
and functionally serves only to anchor the plants and
act as an Osmocote receptacle once the plants reach
adult-like sizes. FYI: in my pond I'm using 10" or 12"
square pots to hold plants a meter and more tall.
Finally- in my experience using mesh pots one must
still heed The Penultimate Boosian Precept of aquatic
aroid culture:
<<< Keep the media's surface/ crowns of your plants
above the water line at all times-!! >>>
I never submerge my pots more than halfway and start
them out even higher... eventually lowering the pots to
their final, maximum 50% depth only after a lot of roots
have grown out of them down into the water.
Vertical positioning in my pond is accomplished by
setting the mesh pots on top of 4" (or bigger) diameter
slip ABS couplings set on end; with many large holes
drilled through the coupling's sides to avoid anaerobic
water conditions/ dead zones directly under the plants.
For deeper and variable situations I've made pedestals
by using two plastic drain grate-to-pipe fittings set in a
back to back configuration with "x" length of ABS pipe
(holes again, please) interconnecting them. No need
to glue things, so you can use pipes of differing length
to vary the pot depth as needed.
-Dan
On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Adam Black wrote:
> I don't recall if anyone has mentioned it yet, but has anyone tried
> the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I would imagine these would be
> beneficial to allow for better circulation through the pot and
> media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so
> would think they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a
> Montrichardia in need of repotting and I am going to give it a try.
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Criswick
> Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM
> To: 'Discussion of aroids'
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
>
> For some years I have had a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just
> outside my concrete pond, which is above ground level by 18 inches
> (45 cm.) It used to be grown in another pond, with roots totally
> submerged in water. Here it is in permanently damp soil and the
> soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would not seem
> that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide the
> ultimate/optimum of conditions.
>
> In the attached photo you can see the Cyrtosperma with a
> Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in the same soil, and a Musa
> ornate to the right of it.
>
>
> John.
>
> From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-
> bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:50 PM
> To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
>
> Jeremy, I believe the Atlanta Botanical Gardens grew a very large
> C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I can remember right) a large
> rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very
> moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally
> submerge the roots though...
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Mattlage
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date:
> 10/08/09 18:33:00
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aroid-L mailing list
> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2009.10.23 at 15:05:42(20205)
Dear Dan and fellow aquatic lovers,
Dan, your method sounds as close to perfect as possible! It incorporates both Enids and my methods of growing these plants!
In reading about the medium in which you pot your aquatics, I`d venture to say that your pots in all actuality COULD be completely submersed if needed, and the ONLY item in your mix which just MIGHT decay would be the peat moss, but this should NOT rot (check it from time to time and report back, please!) and smell like a dead rat, in commercial "Soil" mixes, lots of the material incorporated into them DOES rot, smell BAD and kills the plant!
The reason I keep POUNDING this point (and I so appreciate your input!) is as follows---back when I sold Aquatics at the Fairchild IAS shows, I`d screen the buyers pretty closely and give advice on HOW to grow them, no soil mix BELOW the water line, etc., etc.. Well, the very next year I` be approached by a past-year buyer who might be pretty irate, saying that the expensive plant he purchased had JUST died. I`d question him/her on if they had done as I instructed, and some BS would come back at me, like--"No, you see we decided to experiment and did so-and-so, which I knew was GUARENTEED to kill the poor, now-irreplacable plant! I`d then go off on a rant, saying don`t you recall all the things I TOLD you that you could not do??? Why did you NOT, as I strongly suggested, grow the plant to blooming/fruiting size UNDER MY PROVEN-TO-BE-SUCCESFUL methods, THEN collect and grow the seeds to experiment with, and THEN do what YOU might think is a ''better way'' to grow these rare and expensive plants?? I never got a satisfactory reply. MAN--I still get upset just recalling it!!
I agree with you about re-potting, leave them be as long as possible, but if and when you REALLY need to re-pot (my Urospathas and some Certospermas grew to 6' +!!!), I don`t believe that root breakage is a major concern, as in heated water the plants replace these roots VERY quickly!
Do you know how I might contact Dylan Hannon??
The Very Best to you and ALL friends on aroid-l.
Julius
| HTML +More |
WPB, FLORIDA
From: levin@pixar.com
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:58:36 -0700
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Adam,
I've been growing aquatic aroids in plastic mesh pots set
into a pond for many years now. The pond is inside my
heated greenhouse (in the SF Bay Area) and the water
is further heated by a immersion/ aquarium heater and
constantly circulated with a submersible pump with the
return to the pond flowing over a small waterfall.
As you posited: water/ O2 circulation inside mesh pots
does appear better compared with using conventional
nursery pots for this application. I offer this assessment
based upon faster growth rates and reduced die-back
of new growth (i.e. sometimes a new shoot will rot out)
in my given conditions.
The media mix I use in my mesh pots:
4 - washed Monterey sand (#2/12 screen)
2- pumice
1- red lava (5/16" clean)
1- coarse/ chunk peat moss (Sunshine, blue grade)
Good light, good air circulation and regular fertilization
with majors AND minors are also key to good culture.
The one major downside to using mesh pots: Aquatic
plant roots are quite brittle- so repotting is not all that
practical, since much of the root system will naturally
be growing out through the holes at the sides/ bottom
and easily snapped off if you monkey with things much.
I suppose one could always cut a mesh pot away from
it's denizen and attempt a new/ larger pot but it wouldn't
be pretty. Especially if prickles are involved (e.g. Lasia,
some Cyrtosperma, etc).
I've personally opted to not repot my aquatics at all.
I simply let them be. My media is 90% inert anyway
and functionally serves only to anchor the plants and
act as an Osmocote receptacle once the plants reach
adult-like sizes. FYI: in my pond I'm using 10" or 12"
square pots to hold plants a meter and more tall.
Finally- in my experience using mesh pots one must
still heed The Penultimate Boosian Precept of aquatic
aroid culture:
<<< Keep the media's surface/ crowns of your plants
above the water line at all times-!! >>>
I never submerge my pots more than halfway and start
them out even higher... eventually lowering the pots to
their final, maximum 50% depth only after a lot of roots
have grown out of them down into the water.
Vertical positioning in my pond is accomplished by
setting the mesh pots on top of 4" (or bigger) diameter
slip ABS couplings set on end; with many large holes
drilled through the coupling's sides to avoid anaerobic
water conditions/ dead zones directly under the plants.
For deeper and variable situations I've made pedestals
by using two plastic drain grate-to-pipe fittings set in a
back to back configuration with "x" length of ABS pipe
(holes again, please) interconnecting them. No need
to glue things, so you can use pipes of differing length
to vary the pot depth as needed.
-Dan
On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Adam Black wrote:
I don't recall if anyone has mentioned it yet, but has anyone tried the "mesh" pots for aquatic aroids? I would imagine these would be beneficial to allow for better circulation through the pot and media. I think they are more commonly used for water lilies so would think they would apply perfectly toward aroids. I have a Montrichardia in need of repotting and I am going to give it a try.
Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: John Criswick
Sent: Oct 9, 2009 11:48 AM
To: 'Discussion of aroids'
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
For some years I have had a Cyrtosperma johnstonii growing just outside my concrete pond, which is above ground level by 18 inches (45 cm.) It used to be grown in another pond, with roots totally submerged in water. Here it is in permanently damp soil and the soil is a very heavy, intractable clay loam, so it would not seem that it needs to be in moss, although that might provide the ultimate/optimum of conditions.
In the attached photo you can see the Cyrtosperma with a Typhonodourum lindleyi behind it, in the same soil, and a Musa ornate to the right of it.
John.
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:50 PM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma growing media suggestions...
Jeremy, I believe the Atlanta Botanical Gardens grew a very large C. johnstonii in what looked like (if I can remember right) a large rock bowl with just moss as the growing medium. Probably keep very moist but not too wet. Just another suggestion. I wouldnt totally submerge the roots though...
Thanks,
Michael Mattlage
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/08/09 18:33:00
_______________________________________________
Aroid-L mailing list
Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
--_a6e2ad5d-6a9a-49a6-bad2-421dfc320ce3_----==============%28750164341004544= |
|
From: "mossytrail" <mossytrail at hctc.com> on 2009.10.25 at 23:40:44(20207)
Yes, people are notorious for that. One of my labmates used
to work in the pet trade, and buyers were the same way for
him. They would, for example, buy an exotic crayfish. Next
day, they would return the crayfish, with the complaint, "it
ate all my fish." He would reply, "you may recall, we told
you it would eat fish." They would then say, "yes, but I
didn't think you were serious."
Um...if he wasn't serious, he wouldn't have told them.
| +More |
> The reason I keep POUNDING this point (and I so appreciate
> your input!) is as follows---back when I sold Aquatics at
> the Fairchild IAS shows, I`d screen the buyers pretty
> closely and give advice on HOW to grow them, no soil mix
> BELOW the water line, etc., etc.. Well, the very next
> year I` be approached by a past-year buyer who might be
> pretty irate, saying that the expensive plant he purchased
> had JUST died. I`d question him/her on if they had done
> as I instructed, and some BS would come back at me,
> like--"No, you see we decided to experiment and did
> so-and-so," which I knew was GUARENTEED to kill the poor,
> now-irreplacable plant! I`d then go off on a rant, saying
> don`t you recall all the things I TOLD you that you could
> not do??? Why did you NOT, as I strongly suggested, grow
> the plant to blooming/fruiting size UNDER MY
> PROVEN-TO-BE-SUCCESFUL methods, THEN collect and grow the
> seeds to experiment with, and THEN do what YOU might think
> is a ''better way'' to grow these rar
> e and expensive plants?? I never got a satisfactory
> reply. MAN--I still get upset just recalling it!!
>
> I agree with you about re-potting, leave them be as long
> as possible, but if and when you REALLY need to re-pot (my
> Urospathas and some Certospermas grew to 6' +!!!), I don`t
> believe that root breakage is a major concern, as in
> heated water the plants replace these roots VERY quickly!
>
> Do you know how I might contact Dylan Hannon??
>
> The Very Best to you and ALL friends on aroid-l.
>
> Julius
> WPB, FLORIDA
>
_______________________________________________
Aroid-L mailing list
Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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