Leaf unfolding

From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.07.26 at 23:01:59(18251) Hello, Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is it correct what I drawn? Marek +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080727/9de4bd64/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: leaf unfolding.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17124 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080727/9de4bd64/attachment-0003.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20070820 haematospadix2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080727/9de4bd64/attachment-0004.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20070820bulbifer2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 28845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080727/9de4bd64/attachment-0005.jpg

From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.27 at 08:54:54(18256) Hi Marek, The drawing of convolute is involute; the involute is supervolute. It is useful to include an indication of the abaxial surface (by showing a 'V' shape to represent the mid-rib since if the convolute drawing is reversed ('V' on the 'inside' of the lamina) it would be revolute. Very best Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Marek Argent To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:01 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding Hello, Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is it correct what I drawn? Marek ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080727/50e73685/attachment-0001.htm

From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.07.27 at 11:31:00(18259) > > From: abri1973 at wp.pl > > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com > > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:01:59 +0200 > > Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding > > Dear Marek, > > Your drawings are labled opposite of what they should be. > Involute vernation is defined as "A form of folding of a single leaf in which the two leaf margins are each inrolled without either clasping the other, as in Lagenandra". > Convolute or supervolute is when one side of the leaf blade is wrapped around the other side. > I hope this helps. Julius +More > > >> Hello, > > > > Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is it correct what I drawn? > > > > Marek

From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 14:22:22(18261) Dear Marek, Aloha. Convolute vernation is the unrolling of the leaves where the blade margins are curled inward towards the midrib. So, if your drawing shows the top of the leaf as the top of the illustration, it is upside down. In your photos, it would be rolled adaxially or toward the central plant axis. Contrast this with revolute leaf margins where the blade margins are rolled to the underside of the blade. Notice that I did not say revolute vernation. If we were discussing revolute leaf margins, your left image would be a cross section of this. Involute simply means rolled along the longitudinal axis, so when applied to vernation or the unrolling of the emerging leaf, it resembles a shell spiral in cross section....as in your drawing. I will not go into this, but, another type of vernation....which is seen in cycads of the genus, Cycas, is circinnate. I love watching new leaves unfurl. Aloha, Leland +More --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Marek Argent wrote: > From: Marek Argent > Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding > To: "Discussion of aroids" > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 1:01 PM > Hello, > > Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is it > correct what I drawn? > > Marek_______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 15:15:40(18262) Dear all, Aloha. Now I am confused. I would defer to Julius or Pete before accepting my statement. Off the top of my head, I convinced myself I knew of what I spoke...but reading Julius and Pete...I am mistaken. I certainly need tp upgrade my vernation information. Aloha, Leland +More --- On Sun, 7/27/08, brian lee wrote: > From: brian lee > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding > To: "Discussion of aroids" > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 4:22 AM > Dear Marek, > > Aloha. > > Convolute vernation is the unrolling of the leaves where > the blade margins are curled inward towards the midrib. So, > if your drawing shows the top of the leaf as the top of the > illustration, it is upside down. In your photos, it would > be rolled adaxially or toward the central plant axis. > Contrast this with revolute leaf margins where the blade > margins are rolled to the underside of the blade. Notice > that I did not say revolute vernation. If we were > discussing revolute leaf margins, your left image would be > a cross section of this. > > Involute simply means rolled along the longitudinal axis, > so when applied to vernation or the unrolling of the > emerging leaf, it resembles a shell spiral in cross > section....as in your drawing. > > I will not go into this, but, another type of > vernation....which is seen in cycads of the genus, Cycas, > is circinnate. I love watching new leaves unfurl. > > Aloha, > > Leland > > > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Marek Argent > wrote: > > > From: Marek Argent > > Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding > > To: "Discussion of aroids" > > > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 1:01 PM > > Hello, > > > > Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is it > > correct what I drawn? > > > > Marek_______________________________________________ > > Aroid-L mailing list > > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 15:25:07(18263) Dear Pete, Aloha. I was wrong all this time in my mind about these definitions too...Julius mentions that convolute also means supervolute...is this your understanding also? Aloha, Leland +More --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Peter Boyce wrote: > From: Peter Boyce > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding > To: "Discussion of aroids" > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 10:54 PM > Hi Marek, > > The drawing of convolute is involute; the involute is > supervolute. It is useful to include an indication of the > abaxial surface (by showing a 'V' shape to > represent the mid-rib since if the convolute drawing is > reversed ('V' on the 'inside' of the > lamina) it would be revolute. > > Very best > > Pete > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marek Argent > To: Discussion of aroids > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 7:01 AM > Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding > > > Hello, > > Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is it > correct what I drawn? > > Marek > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l_______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 15:28:55(18264) Dear Julius, Aloha. I messed up on this...in my mind, I thought I had it right...but I was confused on these terms...time to re-program the synapses. Aloha, Leland +More --- On Sun, 7/27/08, ju-bo at msn.com wrote: > From: ju-bo at msn.com > Subject: [Aroid-l] FW: Leaf unfolding > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 1:31 AM > > > From: abri1973 at wp.pl > > > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com > > > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:01:59 +0200 > > > Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding > > > > Dear Marek, > > > > Your drawings are labled opposite of what they should > be. > > Involute vernation is defined as "A form of > folding of a single leaf in which the two leaf margins are > each inrolled without either clasping the other, as in > Lagenandra". > > Convolute or supervolute is when one side of the leaf > blade is wrapped around the other side. > > I hope this helps. > > Julius > > > > >> Hello, > > > > > > Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is > it correct what I drawn? > > > > > > Marek > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.29 at 06:49:48(18279) Dear Leland and others, I had to double check in Lindley's Introduction to Botany, an ancient but absolutely fabulous ref. For those not able to trace this (it is 1832....) Stern's magisterial Botanical Latin bases almost all of it's plant sources to Lindley... Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian lee" To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 11:28 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] FW: Leaf unfolding > Dear Julius, > > Aloha. > > I messed up on this...in my mind, I thought I had it right...but I was > confused on these terms...time to re-program the synapses. > > Aloha, > > Leland > > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, ju-bo at msn.com wrote: > >> From: ju-bo at msn.com >> Subject: [Aroid-l] FW: Leaf unfolding >> To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com >> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 1:31 AM >> > > From: abri1973 at wp.pl >> > > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com >> > > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:01:59 +0200 >> > > Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding >> > >> > Dear Marek, >> > >> > Your drawings are labled opposite of what they should >> be. >> > Involute vernation is defined as "A form of >> folding of a single leaf in which the two leaf margins are >> each inrolled without either clasping the other, as in >> Lagenandra". >> > Convolute or supervolute is when one side of the leaf >> blade is wrapped around the other side. >> > I hope this helps. >> >> Julius >> > >> > >> Hello, >> > > >> > > Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is >> it correct what I drawn? >> > > >> > > Marek >> _______________________________________________ >> Aroid-L mailing list >> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l >

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