Philodendrons produce infrared light???

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.19 at 20:54:19(17583) There is a guy on UBC which is one of the sites I often answer questions about aroids insisting his Philodendron bipennidifidum is producing infrared light as a result of the spadix going through male and female anthesis. I've tried to explain the process as I've learned it from Dr. Croat and Julius including insect pollinators and how they are attracted to the plant as a result of pheromones. I now am receiving private male from others saying they think he is onto something. It is obvious from his "strange science" he knows nothing about aroids. He had no idea what pollen even was, yet he described it as a purely personal observation. His theory is the heat produced by the spadix is a result of infrared light and he appears to have no understanding of thermogenesis. Will any of you please let me know if such a thing is even possible? I've read of nothing close to this in any of the published material in my library. I am checking Simon Mayo, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce's book right now, so if any of you know of something I don't know, please put me on the right track. And by the way, Julius, you sent me a great explanation of how Philodendron species reproduce. I can't find that anywhere! I would have sworn I added it to my website but can't find it now! If you have that at hand, please send it to me and also publish it here. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080519/2df41278/attachment.htm

From: bstover at uark.edu (Bryan J. Stover) on 2008.05.19 at 22:07:06(17585) Steve, of the wonder kidney, wrote: "And by the way, Julius, you sent me a great explanation of how Philodendron species reproduce. I can't find that anywhere! I would have sworn I added it to my website but can't find it now! If you have that at hand, please send it to me and also publish it here." Second the "publish it here" motion. Thanks! +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080519/19e1c392/attachment-0001.htm

From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org (Tom Croat) on 2008.05.19 at 22:44:59(17587) Dear Steve: There is a rather complete discussion of pollination in Philodendron in my revision of Philodendron for Central America. Tom +More ________________________________ From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 3:54 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendrons produce infrared light??? There is a guy on UBC which is one of the sites I often answer questions about aroids insisting his Philodendron bipennidifidum is producing infrared light as a result of the spadix going through male and female anthesis. I've tried to explain the process as I've learned it from Dr. Croat and Julius including insect pollinators and how they are attracted to the plant as a result of pheromones. I now am receiving private male from others saying they think he is onto something. It is obvious from his "strange science" he knows nothing about aroids. He had no idea what pollen even was, yet he described it as a purely personal observation. His theory is the heat produced by the spadix is a result of infrared light and he appears to have no understanding of thermogenesis. Will any of you please let me know if such a thing is even possible? I've read of nothing close to this in any of the published material in my library. I am checking Simon Mayo, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce's book right now, so if any of you know of something I don't know, please put me on the right track. And by the way, Julius, you sent me a great explanation of how Philodendron species reproduce. I can't find that anywhere! I would have sworn I added it to my website but can't find it now! If you have that at hand, please send it to me and also publish it here. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080519/9b62069d/attachment-0001.htm

From: ted.held at us.henkel.com (ted.held at us.henkel.com) on 2008.05.20 at 12:18:42(17589) Steve, I expect that what is being described is infrared light radiating from internally-produced heat via thermogenesis. Thermogenesis will happen in the dark. Warm bodies radiate infrared. You, sitting at your computer screen, are generating infrared just sitting there and being alive. That's how you feel warm when there's a fire across the room. The amount of heat emitted by a body depends on its temperature and will radiate energy even when quite cold, although it is not as easy to detect. The earth radiates stupendous amounts of heat into space all the time. Yes, an infrared camera will pick up a glow from an aroid "in heat". Ted. +More "ExoticRainforest" Sent by: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com 05/19/2008 04:54 PM Please respond to Discussion of aroids To "Discussion of aroids" cc Subject [Aroid-l] Philodendrons produce infrared light??? There is a guy on UBC which is one of the sites I often answer questions about aroids insisting his Philodendron bipennidifidum is producing infrared light as a result of the spadix going through male and female anthesis. I've tried to explain the process as I've learned it from Dr. Croat and Julius including insect pollinators and how they are attracted to the plant as a result of pheromones. I now am receiving private male from others saying they think he is onto something. It is obvious from his "strange science" he knows nothing about aroids. He had no idea what pollen even was, yet he described it as a purely personal observation. His theory is the heat produced by the spadix is a result of infrared light and he appears to have no understanding of thermogenesis. Will any of you please let me know if such a thing is even possible? I've read of nothing close to this in any of the published material in my library. I am checking Simon Mayo, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce's book right now, so if any of you know of something I don't know, please put me on the right track. And by the way, Julius, you sent me a great explanation of how Philodendron species reproduce. I can't find that anywhere! I would have sworn I added it to my website but can't find it now! If you have that at hand, please send it to me and also publish it here. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080520/6db4423b/attachment.htm

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.20 at 13:09:31(17590) Since Saturday of this past week, Julius Boos, Leland Miyano, Christopher Rogers and I have been discussing the possibility (probability) that infrared may be involved in the process of thermogenesis and pollinator attractaction within aroids. It appears to us, and Christopher is the only trained scientist among us, this concept is very likely possible! I personally find it interesting that I've not read of any research within the aroid community on this concept. With the help of all of these, as well as by doing some research on the IAS website and by reading information within Simon Mayo, J. Bogner, and Pete Boyce's great text on Araceae as well Dr. Croat's journals along with Deni Bown's book, I have prepared a response to the fellow in London who originally made the post on UBC asking if he had actually observed "infrared light" involved in the anthesis of his Philodendron bipennidifidum. Now is where I really need the input of all you honest to goodness aroid scientists out there on this forum!! The University of British Colombia plant discussion website has been offline due to a server failure since Sunday. As a result, this has not been posted. I would very much like input from any of the world class aroid botanists who read this forum. Tell me if I have my facts right and if I got something wrong, what do I do to correct it? I'd personally really like to see this discussion continue on the Aroid l forum! If this is possible, and it certainly appears it may be a part of thermogenesis as well as an attractant feature for the pollination of aroid species, I'd love to learn more. I'm not a scientist and what I've written is based solely on what I can read along with the input of Christopher, Julius and Leland. But if this idea has merit, it would certainly appear more research would be useful to our community. Now, this is my post which will be made once the UBC server is back online. If you see errors or anything that needs to be addressed, please point it out! The post is addressed to the fellow who asked the original questions. One point if I may addressed solely to the readers of this forum. I know a lot of people are relatively new on Aroid l since I often see new names asking questions or responding to ones posed by others. Our community is composed of people who have an interest in aroids and as such should have an interest in the International Aroid Society. I'm going to steal Julius' podium and suggest that if you have not taken the time to join IAS, please do so right now! The $20 per year you will spend will come back to you many more times than you realize! And if you are not using the IAS website to answer your own questions about aroids, you have missed one incredible source! Please consider joining right now! http://www.aroid.org/ Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Chris, it appears possible you may have opened a new door in understanding more of the pollination of Philodendron species. Whether you have simply made an observation or a discovery is yet to be determined and I am certainly not qualified to comment. I am now receiving a stream of mail from researchers and skilled aroid experts who find your observations of interest. The one thing that would have been of greatest benefit would have been that you had a better understanding of what you were observing at the time you took your measurements. By understanding what was happening you would have been better able to more accurately record information at the critical phases during anthesis. Now, let me state I am not an expert in this field. I just study it a great deal and spend a lot of time discussing information with people who are experts. Don't take everything I write here as science fact, just take it as a basis for your own studies. Since you are apparently relatively close to the Royal Botanic Garden Kew in London I would strongly recommend you attempt to seek an appointment with Dr. Simon Mayo who is one of the world's top aroid botanists and experts in Philodendron species, especially those from Brazil. Your specimen of Philodendron bippidifidum is a Brazilizian Philodendron species. Simon is one of the authors of a scientific text entitled The Genera of Araceae. That text is quite costly, around $180 per copy U.S., but if you are interested in persuing this endeavor you will learn a great deal about pollination within that text written by Simon, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce. It is the single most comprehensive such text available. In addition, secure a copy of Deni Bown's text, Aroids, Plants of the Arum Family. This book is relatively inexpensive and available from Amazon.com. Deni's book is jam packed with aroid information with more than a single discussion of the processes you observed. I have several follow ups which I will be posting but for now I'd like to give you some "food for thought" regarding what you observed. Aroids are pollinated by insect species, often very specific "assigned" species. The vast majority of Philodendron are often visited by the male of a beetle species found within the genus Neelia, although these beetles do not appear to feed nor mate on the inflorescence. It appears only larger beetles actually do the work of pollination. The pollinators appear to be members of subfamily Dynastinae in the family Scarabaeidae. Many belong to the genus Cyclocephala and have been recorded as pollinators of Philodendron and other aroid genera. Some of these beetles are not particularly species specific and visit more than a single Philodendron species, however it is surmised the height of the plant may be a particular attractant to individual beetles thus causing them not to cross pollinate other Philodendron. Those beetles are generally drawn to the Philodendron inflorescence in the late day or at dusk and are apparently attracted by a combination of pheromones (scent) and a source of food and shelter whi ch is composed at least in part of an oil produced on the staminate flowers containing lipids along with the enclosure of the spathe. Shelter may play a part since the male often brings along his mate in order to breed at the same time. Some Philodendron species have sweet smelling pheromones while others show no noticeable aroma. The one you observed, Philodendron bipennidifidum, appears to have been attractively scented. This aroma is produced by the sterile male flowers on the inflorescence which are attempting to entice a pollinator, and to the male of that insect species that scent may be similar to the same pheromone that attracts him to a mate when she is ready to be impregnated. This point is not factually certain within Philodendron. Anthesis is composed of two primary stages, female anthesis at which time the pollinator is attracted and male anthesis during which time pollen is produced to be carried to another plant. Some species are capable of self pollination, but not all. And as you will read later, a very unusual but common chemical source may also help to prevent self pollination. During anthesis (both female and male) the open spathe of the Philodendron provides space for protection and often entices these beetles to use that area for feeding along with a place to safely copulate. The plant provides a source of nutrient rich lipids which is an excellent food source for the beetles, but the plant also benefits. It is not uncommon for the beetles to spend the night within the spathe and spadix of the host Philodendron and they frequently mate during this period. So why do they spend the night? Thermogenisis! Quite simply, the spadix can warm enough to be noticeable to the touch and for the insects that may be tired from traveling long distances to perform their required tasks this additional source of heat in the rain forest creates a microclimate and may actually increase their metabolism and encourage them to explore all portions of the spathe and spadix. Quite simply, a microclimatic zone of warmth is now being generated within the spathe that offers both comfort and protecti on along with food. This feature alone may increase the chance of self pollination within the specimen, but another may inhibit the same. The thermogenesis produced by the plant during anthesis, which is simply a natural heat produced by many living beings, appears to stimulate the beetles into this period of copulation. Of major interest, even though the effects of thermogenesis have been observed for over 200 years, not until relatively recently did anyone know the cause. So what is the chemical cause? Salicylic acid, the same compound used to manufacture aspirin! The salicylic acid begins not only the heating process but also the production of the pheromones (scent). This unique process is not limited to Aracea (aroids) but is also found in other plant genera. Read Deni Bown's book for a more complete explanation. Of interest, salicylic acid may also help to prevent self pollination which is an interesting contradiction in and of itself. The thermogenesis (thermo genesis. "Heat Birth" or heat production) caused by the salicylic acid appears to be one of the stimulators to cause the beetles to be active and as a result to both feed and copulate. It is known the rate of thermogenesis (heat rise) is sometimes dramatic. And that may be what you observed with your IR thermometer. However, thermogenesis does not produce a consistent temperature since the highest temperatures appear to last only 20 to 40 minutes. In fact, it may be the visit of the beetles that contributes to the effect botanists know as thermogenisis. I'm sure you are now questioning why you didn't see any beetles, and that raises a new group of questions since scientists have known for a long time they don't need to be present for thermogenisis to manifest itself. But the presence of beetles does appear to increase the temperature produced by the event. The temperature increase appears to increase the amount of pheromone being exuded by the tiny flowers, thus the strength of the pollinator attractant. Up to 200 beetles at a single time have been observed on a single inflorescence during anthesis! However, the normal number is closer to 5 to 10. Researchers have noted the highest temperatures appear to occur during the period when the highest number of beetles are present. However, the exact role of thermogenesis is still not well understood and your observations "may" have opened the door for additional research. Right now, no one appears to know if research on infrared heat in relationship to an attractant role is being done. You just observed both female and male anthesis without fully understanding what you were watching. The first stage is when the female flowers are ready to be pollinated and the production of the attractant pheromone along with thermogenisis begins. Female anthesis in Philodendron can last approximately 2 days. That stage is followed often a day or so later by male anthesis which is the point when pollen is produced. The pollen often appears to be a stringy substance as you observed. The beetles often visit a separate inflorescence in the male stage of anthesis prior to visiting an inflorescence beginning female anthesis and thus collect pollen on their bodies and transfer that pollen from one healthy specimen to another in need of pollination. All of this is within Nature's ingenious design to keep the ecosystem strong and healthy. Now, here are the questions at hand. Is the infrared heat you observed directly related to thermogenesis or something entirely different? Does the infrared heat have any impact as an attractant on the assigned beetle pollinator? I really cannot offer an opinion although it certainly appears plausible. I asked several interested experts as explained in another post and these interesting responses I received from D. Christopher Rogers, Senior Invertebrate Ecologist/Taxonomist, EcoAnalysts, Inc. stood out, "Infrared thermometer works by detecting radiation in the IR spectrum. IR radiation is emitted by all objects depending on their temperature. IR is a color like any other part of the electromagnetic spectrum, just like visible light, but we just cannot see it, although many insects and crustaceans can, as well as some birds. Just an aside: some raptors can see the urine tracks in infra red left by rodents who just dribble wherever they go and so know which areas to concentrate on for prey items. So, ther e is IR color and also IR radiation emitted by all objects. The higher an object?s temperature, the greater the object?s IR radiation. The IR thermometer does not tell you the color of an object, it tells you the heat it is radiating by a correction factor multiplied times the IR radiation. This is exactly how the IR camera and thermometer work. But it must know what the basic background temperature is to calibrate itself. So, metabolic reactions will generate heat, which is measurable in the IR spectrum. One of my favorite aroids is Helicodiceros muscivorus, the Dead Horse Arum. The cells in the spadix are packed with mitochondria, which are the cell powerhouses. As a result, they raise the temperature of the plant to a wonderful 98.6 degrees F when they are in bloom and producing their macabre odors. It seems to me that anthesis is probably very costly (in energy) to the plant. So, the mitochondria are working hard to move anthesis along, spending lots of energy, much of which is lost as heat, and therefore generating an increase in IR radiation. Since insects do cue in on pheromones and the IR discharge in those pheromones, it seems a very logical step for the plant to exploit in the attraction of pollinators. Obviously, since Helicodiceros, Amorphophallus and Typhonium all produce heat from the spadix appendix (possibly to volitalize scent molecules as well as to add allure to the deathly perfumes) it seems that the abil ity would be found residing in other aroids as well." Christopher then continues responding to the question of the possibility infrared is involved in the process of anthesis as an attractant, "YES!!! Many insects respond to infrared. This is why the moth (and some many other insects) come to the flame (porch light, candle, mercury vapor bug collecting light, et cetera). One paper I remember reading discussed how certain moths produce IR. The female corn ear worm rubs her body building up a static electricity charge through friction. She releases her pheromones in a cloud and then discharges the static charge into the cloud giving an IR flash, attracting mates (and a few predators and parasites!!) towards her. So again, plants could easily be using IR as well as pheromonal tricks to attract pollinators. Mosquitoes do a similar thing; when I was working for the State Health Department on mosquito borne diseases, I used a CDC trap. This trap is a bucket filled with dry ice (carbon dioxide) over a very small ?wheat grain? light. Female biting mosquitoes follow the CO2 (assuming it to be exhaled breath) to find a good host, but then focus on the IR glow of the tiny light as the exact source, after following the CO2 trail. When they approached the light, they were then sucked into a chamber by a small fan." So, now that we can establish the fact infrared can act as an attractant we are still left to ponder whether or not it will act as an attractant to the specific beetle species involved with Philodendron. I'm not sure if anyone knows the answer. But here is some conjecture that is being batted around as a result of your post. The current questions are asking if it could be possible if the initial attractant is the pheromone which acts more like a long range invitation and "aims" the beetles toward the plant that is now nearing female anthesis? It is known from the study of orchids that many of these assigned insects can sense a single molecule of the pheromone from up to one mile away. But that leads to a another question. Is it the thermogenesis that is the final attractant attracting the beetle and his mate to a source of food? Or is it possible the infrared heat also severs in addition to the pheromone attractant. In other words, the infrared heat could possibly act as a "neon sign" which is basica lly blinking "Eat Here, Sleep Here, Have Sex Here"! Is that possible? I just do not know! But you have posed some interesting thought. Again, I strongly recommend you consider buying and reading the text by Dr. Mayo, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce as well as Deni Bown's text. These three scientists are among the best in the world when it comes to aroid species. Deni is an accomplished writer but the facts posed in her text are well researched. Additional great information can be found in the Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 1997, volume 84, #3 by Dr. Thomas B. Croat. Pose your theories to Simon if you can manage an appointment at the Kew. In the meantime, I can assure you there are now some in the United States who have shown interest. Will it prove anything to which you can claim credit? I have no idea. I'm just a writer/photographer who loves to study aroid species. Just one additional note. The information presented here was gathered from the International Aroid Society website http://www.aroid.org/ as well as from the texts mentioned. Input on this was given by aroid experts Julius Boos and Leland Miyano in addition to the named sources. If you are truly interested in learning more about your aroid specimen I would urge you to consider joining the IAS. You can do so by clicking on the link above. The $20 per year you will spend on membership will come back to you many times in journals and information alone. You will quickly learn many of the members of the International Aroid Society are extremely knowledgeable about the plants they grow and they are quite willing to share information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080520/ca7d126f/attachment-0001.htm

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.20 at 17:39:35(17591) And I'm about to read it again Tom! Although I feel a great deal better I still tire easily. But this subject fascinates me so I'll be reading your work. Again! Steve +More Dear Steve: There is a rather complete discussion of pollination in Philodendron in my revision of Philodendron for Central America. Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080520/a67547e0/attachment-0001.htm

From: hermine at endangeredspecies.com (hermine) on 2008.05.20 at 17:52:49(17592) > >Yes, an infrared camera will pick up a glow from an aroid "in heat". > >Ted. and really, who wouldn't. It is an interesting IDEA. even if the fellow did not know what was pollen. sometimes physicists can be remarkably dense about plain old biology us dirt farmers take for granted. I only recently found out that certain flowers which to humans look WHITE, appear to be like a Stanley Kubrik on LSD colour fantasy beyond our ability to perceive the visible spectrum, if one is a bug or other pollinating agent. Moth, perhaps, I dunno. Anyway, even as dogs hear notes we do not, and scream about it, some creatures see incredible colours where we see only white. poor blind things that we are, and to a dog, deaf, and to a bloodhound, we are olfactorilly challenged. I have trouble with that word, I am trying to make it look right, and the spell checker has gone MAD. anyway, you probably all knew this long before me. hermine +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080520/bd31c869/attachment-0001.htm

From: gibernau at cict.fr (Marc Gibernau) on 2008.05.21 at 07:48:07(17598) Dear All, I have studied, with Denis Barab? et Roger Seymour, thermogenesis in many aroids and particularly Philodendron. The thermogenic process, the heating, is due to a particular respiration of the cells of the spadix which converts the biological energy into heat. Increasing the temperature of a body leads to increase its emission in the infrared wave lengths (see picture on page 4 of the attached document). In conclusion, yes thermogenic flowers/inflorescences can be detected in infrared when heating. Heating is ten cause of the infrared radiations and not the contrary. About the pollination of Philodendron on the IAS web site you have several pages dedicated to the pollination ecology of aroids and one particularly on Philodendron : http://www.aroid.org/pollination/gibernau/index.html I hope my explanations are clear. All the best, Marc +More PS: more info on http://www.edb.ups-tlse.fr/equipe3/MG/mg2.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080521/63dfce91/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: P. melinonii respiration - Seymour & Gibernau 2008 J. Exp. Bot..pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 424875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080521/63dfce91/attachment-0001.pdf

From: harrywitmore at witmore.net (Harry Witmore) on 2008.05.21 at 12:13:51(17599) Hasn't there been research about this associated with Skunk Cabbage (Symplocarpus foetidus)? Harry Witmore +More Cloud Jungle Epiphytes HYPERLINK "http://www.cloudjungle.com/"www.cloudjungle.com _____ From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:10 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendrons produce infrared light??? Since Saturday of this past week, Julius Boos, Leland Miyano, Christopher Rogers and I have been discussing the possibility (probability) that infrared may be involved in the process of thermogenesis and pollinator attractaction within aroids. It appears to us, and Christopher is the only trained scientist among us, this concept is very likely possible! I personally find it interesting that I've not read of any research within the aroid community on this concept. With the help of all of these, as well as by doing some research on the IAS website and by reading information within Simon Mayo, J. Bogner, and Pete Boyce's great text on Araceae as well Dr. Croat's journals along with Deni Bown's book, I have prepared a response to the fellow in London who originally made the post on UBC asking if he had actually observed "infrared light" involved in the anthesis of his Philodendron bipennidifidum. Now is where I really need the input of all you honest to goodness aroid scientists out there on this forum!! The University of British Colombia plant discussion website has been offline due to a server failure since Sunday. As a result, this has not been posted. I would very much like input from any of the world class aroid botanists who read this forum. Tell me if I have my facts right and if I got something wrong, what do I do to correct it? I'd personally really like to see this discussion continue on the Aroid l forum! If this is possible, and it certainly appears it may be a part of thermogenesis as well as an attractant feature for the pollination of aroid species, I'd love to learn more. I'm not a scientist and what I've written is based solely on what I can read along with the input of Christopher, Julius and Leland. But if this idea has merit, it would certainly appear more research would be useful to our community. Now, this is my post which will be made once the UBC server is back online. If you see errors or anything that needs to be addressed, please point it out! The post is addressed to the fellow who asked the original questions. One point if I may addressed solely to the readers of this forum. I know a lot of people are relatively new on Aroid l since I often see new names asking questions or responding to ones posed by others. Our community is composed of people who have an interest in aroids and as such should have an interest in the International Aroid Society. I'm going to steal Julius' podium and suggest that if you have not taken the time to join IAS, please do so right now! The $20 per year you will spend will come back to you many more times than you realize! And if you are not using the IAS website to answer your own questions about aroids, you have missed one incredible source! Please consider joining right now! HYPERLINK "http://www.aroid.org/"http://www.aroid.org/ Steve Lucas HYPERLINK "http://www.ExoticRainforest.com"www.ExoticRainforest.com Chris, it appears possible you may have opened a new door in understanding more of the pollination of Philodendron species. Whether you have simply made an observation or a discovery is yet to be determined and I am certainly not qualified to comment. I am now receiving a stream of mail from researchers and skilled aroid experts who find your observations of interest. The one thing that would have been of greatest benefit would have been that you had a better understanding of what you were observing at the time you took your measurements. By understanding what was happening you would have been better able to more accurately record information at the critical phases during anthesis. Now, let me state I am not an expert in this field. I just study it a great deal and spend a lot of time discussing information with people who are experts. Don't take everything I write here as science fact, just take it as a basis for your own studies. Since you are apparently relatively close to the Royal Botanic Garden Kew in London I would strongly recommend you attempt to seek an appointment with Dr. Simon Mayo who is one of the world's top aroid botanists and experts in Philodendron species, especially those from Brazil. Your specimen of Philodendron bippidifidum is a Brazilizian Philodendron species. Simon is one of the authors of a scientific text entitled The Genera of Araceae. That text is quite costly, around $180 per copy U.S., but if you are interested in persuing this endeavor you will learn a great deal about pollination within that text written by Simon, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce. It is the single most comprehensive such text available. In addition, secure a copy of Deni Bown's text, Aroids, Plants of the Arum Family. This book is relatively inexpensive and available from Amazon.com. Deni's book is jam packed with aroid information with more than a single discussion of the processes you observed. I have several follow ups which I will be posting but for now I'd like to give you some "food for thought" regarding what you observed. Aroids are pollinated by insect species, often very specific "assigned" species. The vast majority of Philodendron are often visited by the male of a beetle species found within the genus Neelia, although these beetles do not appear to feed nor mate on the inflorescence. It appears only larger beetles actually do the work of pollination. The pollinators appear to be members of subfamily Dynastinae in the family Scarabaeidae. Many belong to the genus Cyclocephala and have been recorded as pollinators of Philodendron and other aroid genera. Some of these beetles are not particularly species specific and visit more than a single Philodendron species, however it is surmised the height of the plant may be a particular attractant to individual beetles thus causing them not to cross pollinate other Philodendron. Those beetles are generally drawn to the Philodendron inflorescence in the late day or at dusk and are apparently attracted by a combination of pheromones (scent) and a source of food and shelter which is composed at least in part of an oil produced on the staminate flowers containing lipids along with the enclosure of the spathe. Shelter may play a part since the male often brings along his mate in order to breed at the same time. Some Philodendron species have sweet smelling pheromones while others show no noticeable aroma. The one you observed, Philodendron bipennidifidum, appears to have been attractively scented. This aroma is produced by the sterile male flowers on the inflorescence which are attempting to entice a pollinator, and to the male of that insect species that scent may be similar to the same pheromone that attracts him to a mate when she is ready to be impregnated. This point is not factually certain within Philodendron. Anthesis is composed of two primary stages, female anthesis at which time the pollinator is attracted and male anthesis during which time pollen is produced to be carried to another plant. Some species are capable of self pollination, but not all. And as you will read later, a very unusual but common chemical source may also help to prevent self pollination. During anthesis (both female and male) the open spathe of the Philodendron provides space for protection and often entices these beetles to use that area for feeding along with a place to safely copulate. The plant provides a source of nutrient rich lipids which is an excellent food source for the beetles, but the plant also benefits. It is not uncommon for the beetles to spend the night within the spathe and spadix of the host Philodendron and they frequently mate during this period. So why do they spend the night? Thermogenisis! Quite simply, the spadix can warm enough to be noticeable to the touch and for the insects that may be tired from traveling long distances to perform their required tasks this additional source of heat in the rain forest creates a microclimate and may actually increase their metabolism and encourage them to explore all portions of the spathe and spadix. Quite simply, a microclimatic zone of warmth is now being generated within the spathe that offers both comfort and protection along with food. This feature alone may increase the chance of self pollination within the specimen, but another may inhibit the same. The thermogenesis produced by the plant during anthesis, which is simply a natural heat produced by many living beings, appears to stimulate the beetles into this period of copulation. Of major interest, even though the effects of thermogenesis have been observed for over 200 years, not until relatively recently did anyone know the cause. So what is the chemical cause? Salicylic acid, the same compound used to manufacture aspirin! The salicylic acid begins not only the heating process but also the production of the pheromones (scent). This unique process is not limited to Aracea (aroids) but is also found in other plant genera. Read Deni Bown's book for a more complete explanation. Of interest, salicylic acid may also help to prevent self pollination which is an interesting contradiction in and of itself. The thermogenesis (thermo genesis. "Heat Birth" or heat production) caused by the salicylic acid appears to be one of the stimulators to cause the beetles to be active and as a result to both feed and copulate. It is known the rate of thermogenesis (heat rise) is sometimes dramatic. And that may be what you observed with your IR thermometer. However, thermogenesis does not produce a consistent temperature since the highest temperatures appear to last only 20 to 40 minutes. In fact, it may be the visit of the beetles that contributes to the effect botanists know as thermogenisis. I'm sure you are now questioning why you didn't see any beetles, and that raises a new group of questions since scientists have known for a long time they don't need to be present for thermogenisis to manifest itself. But the presence of beetles does appear to increase the temperature produced by the event. The temperature increase appears to increase the amount of pheromone being exuded by the tiny flowers, thus the strength of the pollinator attractant. Up to 200 beetles at a single time have been observed on a single inflorescence during anthesis! However, the normal number is closer to 5 to 10. Researchers have noted the highest temperatures appear to occur during the period when the highest number of beetles are present. However, the exact role of thermogenesis is still not well understood and your observations "may" have opened the door for additional research. Right now, no one appears to know if research on infrared heat in relationship to an attractant role is being done. You just observed both female and male anthesis without fully understanding what you were watching. The first stage is when the female flowers are ready to be pollinated and the production of the attractant pheromone along with thermogenisis begins. Female anthesis in Philodendron can last approximately 2 days. That stage is followed often a day or so later by male anthesis which is the point when pollen is produced. The pollen often appears to be a stringy substance as you observed. The beetles often visit a separate inflorescence in the male stage of anthesis prior to visiting an inflorescence beginning female anthesis and thus collect pollen on their bodies and transfer that pollen from one healthy specimen to another in need of pollination. All of this is within Nature's ingenious design to keep the ecosystem strong and healthy. Now, here are the questions at hand. Is the infrared heat you observed directly related to thermogenesis or something entirely different? Does the infrared heat have any impact as an attractant on the assigned beetle pollinator? I really cannot offer an opinion although it certainly appears plausible. I asked several interested experts as explained in another post and these interesting responses I received from D. Christopher Rogers, Senior Invertebrate Ecologist/Taxonomist, EcoAnalysts, Inc. stood out, "Infrared thermometer works by detecting radiation in the IR spectrum. IR radiation is emitted by all objects depending on their temperature. IR is a color like any other part of the electromagnetic spectrum, just like visible light, but we just cannot see it, although many insects and crustaceans can, as well as some birds. Just an aside: some raptors can see the urine tracks in infra red left by rodents who just dribble wherever they go and so know which areas to concentrate on for prey items. So, there is IR color and also IR radiation emitted by all objects. The higher an object?s temperature, the greater the object?s IR radiation. The IR thermometer does not tell you the color of an object, it tells you the heat it is radiating by a correction factor multiplied times the IR radiation. This is exactly how the IR camera and thermometer work. But it must know what the basic background temperature is to calibrate itself. So, metabolic reactions will generate heat, which is measurable in the IR spectrum. One of my favorite aroids is Helicodiceros muscivorus, the Dead Horse Arum. The cells in the spadix are packed with mitochondria, which are the cell powerhouses. As a result, they raise the temperature of the plant to a wonderful 98.6 degrees F when they are in bloom and producing their macabre odors. It seems to me that anthesis is probably very costly (in energy) to the plant. So, the mitochondria are working hard to move anthesis along, spending lots of energy, much of which is lost as heat, and therefore generating an increase in IR radiation. Since insects do cue in on pheromones and the IR discharge in those pheromones, it seems a very logical step for the plant to exploit in the attraction of pollinators. Obviously, since Helicodiceros, Amorphophallus and Typhonium all produce heat from the spadix appendix (possibly to volitalize scent molecules as well as to add allure to the deathly perfumes) it seems that the ability would be found residing in other aroids as well." Christopher then continues responding to the question of the possibility infrared is involved in the process of anthesis as an attractant, "YES!!! Many insects respond to infrared. This is why the moth (and some many other insects) come to the flame (porch light, candle, mercury vapor bug collecting light, et cetera). One paper I remember reading discussed how certain moths produce IR. The female corn ear worm rubs her body building up a static electricity charge through friction. She releases her pheromones in a cloud and then discharges the static charge into the cloud giving an IR flash, attracting mates (and a few predators and parasites!!) towards her. So again, plants could easily be using IR as well as pheromonal tricks to attract pollinators. Mosquitoes do a similar thing; when I was working for the State Health Department on mosquito borne diseases, I used a CDC trap. This trap is a bucket filled with dry ice (carbon dioxide) over a very small ?wheat grain? light. Female biting mosquitoes follow the CO2 (assuming it to be exhaled breath) to find a good host, but then focus on the IR glow of the tiny light as the exact source, after following the CO2 trail. When they approached the light, they were then sucked into a chamber by a small fan." So, now that we can establish the fact infrared can act as an attractant we are still left to ponder whether or not it will act as an attractant to the specific beetle species involved with Philodendron. I'm not sure if anyone knows the answer. But here is some conjecture that is being batted around as a result of your post. The current questions are asking if it could be possible if the initial attractant is the pheromone which acts more like a long range invitation and "aims" the beetles toward the plant that is now nearing female anthesis? It is known from the study of orchids that many of these assigned insects can sense a single molecule of the pheromone from up to one mile away. But that leads to a another question. Is it the thermogenesis that is the final attractant attracting the beetle and his mate to a source of food? Or is it possible the infrared heat also severs in addition to the pheromone attractant. In other words, the infrared heat could possibly act as a "neon sign" which is basically blinking "Eat Here, Sleep Here, Have Sex Here"! Is that possible? I just do not know! But you have posed some interesting thought. Again, I strongly recommend you consider buying and reading the text by Dr. Mayo, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce as well as Deni Bown's text. These three scientists are among the best in the world when it comes to aroid species. Deni is an accomplished writer but the facts posed in her text are well researched. Additional great information can be found in the Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 1997, volume 84, #3 by Dr. Thomas B. Croat. Pose your theories to Simon if you can manage an appointment at the Kew. In the meantime, I can assure you there are now some in the United States who have shown interest. Will it prove anything to which you can claim credit? I have no idea. I'm just a writer/photographer who loves to study aroid species. Just one additional note. The information presented here was gathered from the International Aroid Society website HYPERLINK "http://www.aroid.org/"http://www.aroid.org/ as well as from the texts mentioned. Input on this was given by aroid experts Julius Boos and Leland Miyano in addition to the named sources. If you are truly interested in learning more about your aroid specimen I would urge you to consider joining the IAS. You can do so by clicking on the link above. The $20 per year you will spend on membership will come back to you many times in journals and information alone. You will quickly learn many of the members of the International Aroid Society are extremely knowledgeable about the plants they grow and they are quite willing to share information. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1456 - Release Date: 5/20/2008 6:45 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. 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From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.21 at 21:52:19(17601) Apparently Harry. I just never ran across it until a private message made me at least aware of it. If anyone knows where to find that information, please post it! Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Hasn't there been research about this associated with Skunk Cabbage (Symplocarpus foetidus)? Harry Witmore Cloud Jungle Epiphytes www.cloudjungle.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080521/55418cc3/attachment.htm

From: gibernau at cict.fr (Marc Gibernau) on 2008.05.22 at 09:28:42(17604) Hello Harry et other aroiders, Many papers have studied the thermogenesis in the Skunk Cabbage but none related to infrared, but here again IR as heat source is improbable and likely a consequence of thermogenesis. All the best, Marc

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.23 at 18:13:31(17605) This morning Julius and I received a private response from Marc Gibernau in regard to the observation originally proposed by British engineer Chris Rennie on the University of British Colombia (UBC) plant discussion forum about "infrared light" and a spadix in anthesis. You can read Marc's original response to Aroid l just below this message. The possibility of whether infrared heat may or may not additionally serve to propel thermogenic attractants to aroid pollinators is obviously incomplete. As to whether or not infrared (IR) acts as any sort of homing device for the beetle pollinators of Philodendron or other aroid species, at least research is apparently being done. And there is a possibility it may assist! It is known that many insects can and do use IR to find both light and prey. A private message from entomologist Christopher Rogers explains more and I've included that in this post. But can these beetles which are the natural pollinators of many aroids be attracted to the spadix of an inflorescence entering anthesis as a result of infrared heat as well? To a beetle does the "glowing" spadix appear as a beacon in the night with a sign yelling "eat here, rest here, have sex here?". If you read my post on UBC to Chris which I also posted on Aroid l you will see I proposed the long range attractant may be the pheromone and a short range attractant could be the infrared heat. I have no idea if that is possible! But work is apparently being done to learn more. This is the message from Marc this morning, "Yes heating inflorescences are spot visible in the IR up to 15 meters according to our IR camera. Some beetles (laying in burnt woods) are known to have IR receptors to localize the forest fires. I sent some Cyclocephala (Philodendron pollinators) in Germany for detecting IR receptors but the results were negative. But the fact is that IR attraction is possible, I will continue on this topic, particularly with a Brazilian student. All the best, Marc" There was some very interesting input from folks to this possible idea posted on UBC. I personally believe all of you aroid enthusiasts might find the discussion on the University of British Colombia plant forum at least of interest. If nothing else, you may learn something more about aroid pollination.: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t8988 But before you read the several pages of discussion in which I began more than dubiously and subsequently began to see new possibilities with the urging of Julius, Leland Miyano and Christopher Rogers, watch Chris's time lapse photos of his inflorescence at this link: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t9167&highlight=time+lapse I think you'll find it fascinating how the inflorescence bobs and changes its position. At least I now have a much better understanding of the process of thermogenesis,, pheromone attractants, aroid pollination and how insects "see" as a result of feedback from a bunch of you sent privately. My special thanks to Julius and Leland as well as Christopher Rogers who is a regular on Aroid l. Dr. Croat's journals are of special value to me and always provide great information. This message was sent to Julius, Leland and myself by Christopher Rogers as a result of this discussion, "An infrared thermometer works by detecting radiation in the IR spectrum. IR radiation is emitted by all objects depending on their temperature. IR is a colour like any other part of the electromagnetic spectrum, just like visible light, but we just cannot see it, although many insects and crustaceans can, as well as some birds. (Just an aside: some raptors can see the urine tracks in infra red left by rodents (who just dribble wherever they go) and so know which areas to concentrate on for prey items). So, there is IR colour and also IR radiation emitted by all objects. The higher an object's temperature, the greater the object's IR radiation. The IR thermometer does not tell you the colour of an object, it tells you the heat it is radiating by a correction factor multiplied times the IR radiation. This is exactly how the IR camera and thermometer work. But it must know what the basic background temperat ure is to calibrate itself. So, metabolic reactions will generate heat, which is measurable in the IR spectrum. One of my favorite aroids (which bloomed wonderfully for me this year) is Helicodiceros muscivorus, the Dead Horse Arum. The cells in the spadix are packed with mitochondria, which are the cell powerhouses. As a result, they raise the temperature of the plant to a wonderful 98.6 degrees F when they are in bloom and producing their macabre odors. It seems to me that anthesis is probably very costly (in energy) to the plant. So, the mitochondria are working hard to move anthesis along, spending lots of energy, much of which is lost as heat, and therefore generating an increase in IR radiation. Since insects do cue in on pheromones and the IR discharge in those pheromones, it seems a very logical step for the plant to exploit in the attraction of pollinators. Obviously, since Helicodiceros, Amorphophallus and Typhonium all produce heat from the spadix appendix (possibly to volitalize scent molecules as well as to add allure to t he deathly perfumes) it seems that the ability would be found residing in other aroids as well." I see Aroid l as a place to learn, and not just about the basics. That's why I often ask crazy questions! I get great information from a bunch of you and as you likely realize I am constantly filled with aroid questions! Those of you who are new to Aroid l may not know that many of the world's best aroid botanists and experts are right here with us! They read these posts and often make comments, so the information you receive here (free) is very valuable. A couple of suggestions if I may. There is an incredible body of literature available out there to all of us. Just about anything worth reading on aroids can be read on the IAS website or acquired through the International Aroid Society. Every one of you should own copies of Dr. Croat's journals on Anthurium and Philodendron species as well as his journal on Central American Philodendron. These are quite inexpensive and I guarantee I read something in one or more of those every day. Another text which is incredible is Simon Mayo, J. Bogner and Pete Boyce's The Genera of Araceae. That one is costly but worth every penny. And if you don't have Deni Bown's book Aroids, Plants of the Arum Family, order it today! I rhink the price is only around $20. I'm virtually certain Tricia Frank can provide any of these to you through IAS. Tricia, if you read this will you post a note and let everyone know what texts you have in stock? You don't have to be an IAS member to buy them, but you should join if you are still on the fringes! To all of you who have sent private messages, and there were a bunch, if you feel your material will continue this discussion and perhaps spur more research, please post those here! We mentioned earlier Julius' article on the pollination of aroids and that is almost complete. I have been doing an edit for Julius and once he approves the final version I will post it on my website. I'll post the link here at that time. If you have even considered attempting to hand pollinate an aroid you need to read this! Julius is brilliant and his facts very easy to understand! He explains about both bisexual and unisexual inflorescences and offers tips on how to do pollination when the necessary beetle is still thousands of miles away in a rain forest! Sorry, no inside secrets, just science fact. Thanks again to all of you and keep the information coming! Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Dear All, I have studied, with Denis Barab? et Roger Seymour, thermogenesis in many aroids and particularly Philodendron. The thermogenic process, the heating, is due to a particular respiration of the cells of the spadix which converts the biological energy into heat. Increasing the temperature of a body leads to increase its emission in the infrared wave lengths (see picture on page 4 of the attached document). In conclusion, yes thermogenic flowers/inflorescences can be detected in infrared when heating. Heating is ten cause of the infrared radiations and not the contrary. About the pollination of Philodendron on the IAS web site you have several pages dedicated to the pollination ecology of aroids and one particularly on Philodendron : http://www.aroid.org/pollination/gibernau/index.html I hope my explanations are clear. All the best, Marc PS: more info on http://www.edb.ups-tlse.fr/equipe3/MG/mg2.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080523/57cbb045/attachment-0001.htm

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.23 at 18:38:30(17606) One thing I didn't make clear in this post that I should! Marc Gibernau is one of the top aroid pollination researchers in the world. If there is a possible connection between infrared and pollinator attractants, Marc is likely to be involved in learning about the processes involved. Just another good reason you all should be proud to be a apart of Aroid l and the IAS! Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com This morning Julius and I received a private response from Marc Gibernau in regard to the observation originally proposed by British engineer Chris Rennie on the University of British Colombia (UBC) plant discussion forum about "infrared light" and a spadix in anthesis. You can read Marc's original response to Aroid l just below this message. The possibility of whether infrared heat may or may not additionally serve to propel thermogenic attractants to aroid pollinators is obviously incomplete. As to whether or not infrared (IR) acts as any sort of homing device for the beetle pollinators of Philodendron or other aroid species, at least research is apparently being done. And there is a possibility it may assist! It is known that many insects can and do use IR to find both light and prey. A private message from entomologist Christopher Rogers explains more and I've included that in this post. But can these beetles which are the natural pollinators of many aroids be attracted to the spadix of an inflorescence entering anthesis as a result of infrared heat as well? To a beetle does the "glowing" spadix appear as a beacon in the night with a sign yelling "eat here, rest here, have sex here?". If you read my post on UBC to Chris which I also posted on Aroid l you will see I proposed the long range attractant may be the pheromone and a short range attractant could be the infrared heat. I have no idea if that is possible! But work is apparently being done to learn more. This is the message from Marc this morning, "Yes heating inflorescences are spot visible in the IR up to 15 meters according to our IR camera. Some beetles (laying in burnt woods) are known to have IR receptors to localize the forest fires. I sent some Cyclocephala (Philodendron pollinators) in Germany for detecting IR receptors but the results were negative. But the fact is that IR attraction is possible, I will continue on this topic, particularly with a Brazilian student. All the best, Marc" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080523/b8a56212/attachment-0001.htm

From: hermine at endangeredspecies.com (hermine) on 2008.05.23 at 21:36:54(17607) At 11:38 AM 5/23/2008, you wrote: >One thing I didn't make clear in this post that I should! Marc >Gibernau is one of the top aroid pollination researchers in the >world. If there is a possible connection between infrared and >pollinator attractants, Marc is likely to be involved in learning >about the processes involved. > >Just another good reason you all should be proud to be a apart of >Aroid l and the IAS! > >Steve Lucas +More I want to know where I can get raptors who see rodent pee so they can come to my house and kill the rodents who pee on among other things, my books and my clothing. IR is part of the whole spectrum, but we do get to thinking that if WE cannot see it, it is not visible. I know I feel this way. hermine

From: pjm at gol.com (Peter Matthews) on 2008.05.24 at 01:54:27(17608) If infra-red radiation from the aroid spadix serves as an insect attractant, it might be interesting (for researchers) to look at the plant from different angles - from the side, from 45 degrees below and above, and from directly overhead. In the vertical direction, the radiation effect might be more concentrated, and therefore visible to insects from a greater distance. Perhaps even the angels are looking down. Cheers, P.

From: Chris.Rennie at blueyonder.co.uk (Chris) on 2008.05.24 at 17:03:56(17610) Absolutely agree! The spathe and spadix on my philo so resemble a parabolic dish which is why I would dearly love to get my hands on a thermal imaging camera and produce a time lapse of the spadix heating. I suspect the spathe may be infra red reflective? Thread here: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t8988 See my post #13 about half way down the page. Regards, Chris +More Peter Matthews wrote: > If infra-red radiation from the aroid spadix serves as an insect > attractant, it might be interesting (for researchers) to look at the > plant from different angles - from the side, from 45 degrees below and > above, and from directly overhead. > > In the vertical direction, the radiation effect might be more > concentrated, and therefore visible to insects from a greater distance. > > Perhaps even the angels are looking down. > > Cheers, P. > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > >

From: leo at possi.org (Leo A. Martin) on 2008.05.25 at 01:17:22(17611) Cycads bear cones, produce pheromones, often heat, and so far all the known pollinators are weevils for the Americas and Africa, and thrips for Australia. +More Leo Martin

From: LLmen at wi.rr.com (Don Martinson) on 2008.05.25 at 18:45:23(17615) It's hard to believe that there aren't some camera buffs out there willing to experiment with some IR film. I realize that in this digital age, film photography may seem passe and that IR film may not be the easiest to find. However, there are (or at least were), several brands available brands available: Kodak High Speed Infra-Red Ilford SFX 200 Konica 750nm 120 Infra-red Film My problem is a lack of potentially IR emitting inflorescences here in the far north, but places like FL should be literally swarming with them. A great potential Aroidiana article. Don Martinson +More Milwaukee, Wisconsin Mailto:llmen at wi.rr.com On 5/24/08 12:03 PM, "Chris" wrote: > Absolutely agree! > The spathe and spadix on my philo so resemble a parabolic dish which is > why I would dearly love to get my hands on a thermal imaging camera > and produce a time lapse of the spadix heating. I suspect the spathe may > be infra red reflective? > > Thread here: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t8988 > See my post #13 about half way down the page. > > Regards, > > Chris > > Peter Matthews wrote: >> If infra-red radiation from the aroid spadix serves as an insect >> attractant, it might be interesting (for researchers) to look at the >> plant from different angles - from the side, from 45 degrees below and >> above, and from directly overhead. >> >> In the vertical direction, the radiation effect might be more >> concentrated, and therefore visible to insects from a greater distance. >> >> Perhaps even the angels are looking down. >> >> Cheers, P. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aroid-L mailing list >> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.26 at 00:32:23(17622) IR photography is highly specialized. Kodak used to sell a book but you can't use any ambient light which will affect your exposure. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com It's hard to believe that there aren't some camera buffs out there willing to experiment with some IR film. I realize that in this digital age, film photography may seem passe and that IR film may not be the easiest to find. However, there are (or at least were), several brands available brands available: Kodak High Speed Infra-Red Ilford SFX 200 Konica 750nm 120 Infra-red Film My problem is a lack of potentially IR emitting inflorescences here in the far north, but places like FL should be literally swarming with them. A great potential Aroidiana article. Don Martinson Milwaukee, Wisconsin Mailto:llmen at wi.rr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080525/d97bfb82/attachment.htm

From: gibernau at cict.fr (Marc Gibernau) on 2008.05.26 at 09:09:09(17624) Dear Aroiders, I'll not write a long e-mail because, as I wrote to some of you in private messages, the research on this topic is in fact "very" recent even if the idea is may be 20 years old. Please find in attachment the figure of a recent paper written by Roger Seymour (Univ. of Adelaide, Australia) and myself on the thermogenesis of Philodendron melinonii. The paper is a bit complicate but the this figure present a real picture and the equivalent IR picture of the same inflorescence during thermogenesis (heating phase). Hence you can see the inflorescence like an insect could "see" it through its IR receptors. Flashy!!! There is no question if the pollinating beetles have IR receptors they can detect a heating inflorescence. The questions now to study are: Do Cyclocephala beetles have IR receptors ? What are their sensibility & efficiency? Are IR radiations used as a guide by Cyclocephala beetles to find the inflorescences to visit or are odors sufficient ? To finish, I would like to say that I have the honor to be the IAS speaker during the Annual show next September, and that I'll pleased to tall you some "nice "stories around thermogenesis and IR radiations. All the best, Marc +More -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IR picture.doc Type: application/msword Size: 96256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080526/f4fb8e9c/attachment-0001.doc

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