Philodendron williamsii. It isn't what mostcollectors

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.04.15 at 21:53:12(17396) It certainly does for me Leland. Most of this I knew already due to my numerous exchanges with Eduardo Gon?alves in Brazil, with Julius and with Dr. Croat but you just gave me some new material I can add to the pages to make it all clearer. I truly hope the individual who wrote to tell me the page on Philodendron williamsii is wrong is on this forum. Once I answered they never responded again. I try my best to be accurate and love to be able to quote material from you, Dr. Croat, Julius, Eduardo, Ron Weeks, Joep Moonen and others since I fear people who are new to aroids will just accept some of the confusing material found on the net. Much of the information easily found is simply inaccurate. I also know many people consider me a quack and I certainly make no claim to be an aroid expert. I'm just privileged to know a bunch of you guys and gals who truly are aroid experts! Thanks for the input. I'll certainly be editing some of this into the appropriate pages. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Dear Steve, Aloha. I think that a lot of the confusion of Philodendron williamsii, Philodendron spiritus-sancti, and Philodendron stenolobum arise out the geography of the area. First of all, the name P. spiritus-sancti is derived from the state of Espirito Santo, Brazil. Philodendron spiritus-sancti is found near the town of Domingo Martins, Espirito Santo state, Brazil. North of this town is the town of Santa Leopoldina...a source of much confusion for a host of Philodendron horticultural names. Further to the north is the town of Santa Theresa....which is where the Augusto Ruschi Museum is. I do not know the exact limits of the distribution of Philodendron stenolobum , but we found it as we approached the region of the Rio Doce, in Espirito Santo state. At the time, Philodendron stenolobum was thought to be Philodendron williamsii because Simon Mayo was actively working on Meconostigma. I met him at Roberto Burle-Marx's sitio before he published his treatment. In fairness to Simon Mayo, he had to work with only a few specimens and incomplete material. He also thought that the Espirito Santo state plants differed from the Brazilian state of Bahia population...which is where the true Philodendron williamsii is found. Bahia state is to the north of Espirito Santo state. Northern Esprito Santo and Southern Bahia have a really interesting floral link. To add to the confusion, Philodendron stenolobum has been referred in the horticulture trade as Philodendron 'Espirito Santo'. I hope this clarifies the situation a bit. Aloha, Leland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080415/7c6ffff7/attachment.htm

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.04.18 at 13:30:55(17420) I thought I'd offer a follow up to all of you Philodendron collectors on the response I'm getting to the explanation I made about Philodendron williamsii being very different from the plant often sold with that name (which is Philodendron stenolobum). I've received two very interesting responses this week. The first came from a collector in regard to a similar post I made on the UBC Botanical Garden plant forum. That collector was insistent that I was wrong as well as Leland who I quoted and also Dr. Eduardo Gon?alves since they found the name Philodendron williamsii under a photo of Philodendron stenolobum in Graf's Exotica. In their opinion Graf was the ultimate expert. I'm sorry to report, but most botanical experts discount many listings in Graf's books as inaccurate. I sent that person this response from Dr.Gon?alves, which he sent to Julius Boos in response to a question from Julius, "All horticultural "P. williamsii" is now P. stenolobum. The real P. williamsii is a completely different species, occurring in coastal Bahia state and is rather rare. I don?t have it in cultivation and I have never seen a living specimen in any collection I have visited. It looks like a P. speciosum (or like a huge P. corcovadense), but is somewhat smaller in overall dimensions. I have collected it twice in southern Bahia and I have seen a few more collections in Herbarium. Philodendron stenolobum is only known from Espirito Santo state and is much more common, being found by me in many different localities. I don?t know when or where the confusion began, but P. stenolobum is called P. williamsii in lots of old publications (including Graf?s Exotica). Simon in his revision of Philodendron Meconostigma included P. stenolobum specimens in P. williamsii, probably because he hadn?t enough go od material of P. stenolobum to be sure it was a different thing." I got no response. I also ran across a listing on eBay this week for a specimen of Philodendron stumblebum but the seller was calling it Philodendron williamsii. That seller sent a very nice response but assured me they were sure their name was right since several Philodendron experts in Miami has told them the correct name was Philodendron williamsii. This only points out how many people use the wrong name on this plant. I sent that individual Dr. Gon?alves quote as well. It is unlikely I'll ever make much of a dent in this common error in names, but I'm trying and hope all of you will change your tags if you have the wrong name on a specimen. It isn't bad to be wrong if you have a wrong name on a tag. Its a simple thing to change the tag and try to learn the correct information. And that is all I ever wanted to do by bringing up this subject. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Dear Aroid-l, Aloha. I thought I should give the two references which would clarify this question of Philodendron stenolobum and Philodendron williamsii. They are both species of the subgenus, Meconostigma, and are written up in the following publications. Dr. Simon Mayo of KEW, wrote the revision of the subgenus, Meconostigma in 1991. He did not split Philodendron stenolobum from Philodendron williamsii...but he did note the differences and thought that two taxa may be involved between the Espirito Santo state plants and the Bahia state populations. He did not have the fertile material of Philodendron stenolobum to compare. Mayo, S.J. 1991. A Revision of Philodendron subgenus Meconostigma (Araceae). KEW Bull. 46 (4):601-681. Dr. Eduardo G. Gonsalves, described Philodendron stenolobum as new in 2002. Gonsalves,E.G. & E.R. Salviani , 2002. New Species and Changing Concepts of Philodendron subgenus Meconostigma (Araceae). Aroidiana, Vol 25. pp. 2-15. If there are disputes, these treatments should clarify them. Aloha, Leland --- brian lee wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080418/903f39dd/attachment-0001.htm

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