What's a Cataphyll?

From: ted.held at us.henkel.com (ted.held at us.henkel.com) on 2007.11.26 at 18:02:10(16739) Readers may remember a note from Bernhard in a recent posting as follows: @ English native speakers/botanists: Is cataphyll the right term in English for "Huellblatt"? Or does the term only describe covering leafs over an "underground" bud? I have had a couple of exchanges with him and have noticed that no one on the list has bellyed-up ("belly-up" is an Americanism that means to step up and take responsibility for a thing) to answer his inquiry. Perhaps it's because finding out what the heck a cataphyll is in English is not exactly trivial. The only firm reference I found was from our own Deni Bown's famous book (page 41 in my edition), where she is at pains to differentiate between extensions of the basic leaf ("sheaths" in her example) and complete modified leaves (cataphylls) that shield or protect internodes. Or some such. I have reviewed a number of botany books in my possession and none of them have "cataphyll" 'in the index, even those that helpfully provide glossaries of technical botanical terms. I even checked the definitive dictionary of the English language, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). "Cataphyll" is not an entry in the Second Edition (copyright 2000). But it has an entry for "Cataphyllary", being an adjective for a noun not listed. The definition is: "the colorless or brownish scales found on various parts of plants, esp. underground, regarded as modifications of foliage leaves". The first reference listed is from 1875. The definition there is "Scale or 'Cataphyllary -Leaves' are usually produced on underground shoots . . although they also frequently occur above ground, especially as an envelope to the winter-buds of woody plants (as in the horse-chestnut, oak, etc.)". The OED says the term comes from two Greek words meaning "degraded" and "leaf". Bernhard's suggestion of the German term "Huellblatt", meaning literally a "hull-leaf" seems to accord with the definition matching the winter-bud idea. Attempts to find "cataphyll" (or "Huellblatt" for that matter) in my German-English dictionary and a couple of on-line translation resources were unsuccessful. It seems to me that the idea of a tough, protective "hull-leaf" is not what we generally mean on Aroid-l by a cataphyll. The soft cataphylls shown by Deni Bown on the Anthurium do not seem to me to be of this "hull" sort. In Cryptocoryne (my own specialty, such as it is) what I refer to as cataphylls are even more prominent and leaf-like. Think of the Anthurium cataphylls being 10% to 25% or so the size of a normal leaf and fully green (compared with the idea of them being "colorless or brownish" from the OED). They are also persistent and do not dry and wither away like you might see on an Anthurium. Cryptocoryne leaves have distinctive, and often very elongated petioles (stalks). Cryptocoryne cataphylls do not have petioles. Some Cryptocoryne do not seem to grow cataphylls, while others, such as C. pontederifolia, have conspicuous ones. Anyway, the point of this is to have one of our list botanists explain what is meant by "cataphyll" as it relates to aroids. If you also have a translation into German that would be a bonus. Ted. +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/0690f8f0/attachment.htm

From: mickpascall at hotmail.com (Michael Pascall) on 2007.11.26 at 21:02:16(16740) Drancontiums produce cataphylls , it is an identifying characteristic for some species . It was pointed out to me that Dracontium prancei has a large cataphyll protecting the flower . It is usually higher than the base of the flower . It is very short lived and withers away , thus not appearing in Dans photo . You will see a good example in David Scherberichs fantastic photos of Dracontium nivosum , especially the first 2 in the sequence . Michael Pascall, +More _________________________________________________________________ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_tv4581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071127/fe2c785b/attachment-0001.htm

From: jonathan.ertelt at vanderbilt.edu (Jonathan Ertelt) on 2007.11.26 at 21:34:55(16741) D. Swartz. Collegiate Dictionary of Botany. 1971. cataphyll - a scale-like leaf as found in buds, cotyledons, rhyzomes, etc.; any rudimentary scale-like leaf which precedes the foliage leaf; the German Niederblatter, an underleaf; a leaf present at the beginning of growth. Hope this helps. Jonathan +More >Readers may remember a note from Bernhard in a recent posting as follows: > >@ English native speakers/botanists: Is cataphyll the right term in >English for "Huellblatt"? Or does the term only describe covering >leafs over an "underground" bud? > >I have had a couple of exchanges with him and have noticed that no >one on the list has bellyed-up ("belly-up" is an Americanism that >means to step up and take responsibility for a thing) to answer his >inquiry. Perhaps it's because finding out what the heck a cataphyll >is in English is not exactly trivial. > >The only firm reference I found was from our own Deni Bown's famous >book (page 41 in my edition), where she is at pains to differentiate >between extensions of the basic leaf ("sheaths" in her example) and >complete modified leaves (cataphylls) that shield or protect >internodes. Or some such. > >I have reviewed a number of botany books in my possession and none >of them have "cataphyll" 'in the index, even those that helpfully >provide glossaries of technical botanical terms. > >I even checked the definitive dictionary of the English language, >the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). "Cataphyll" is not an entry in >the Second Edition (copyright 2000). But it has an entry for >"Cataphyllary", being an adjective for a noun not listed. The >definition is: "the colorless or brownish scales found on various >parts of plants, esp. underground, regarded as modifications of >foliage leaves". The first reference listed is from 1875. The >definition there is "Scale or 'Cataphyllary -Leaves' are usually >produced on underground shoots . . although they also frequently >occur above ground, especially as an envelope to the winter-buds of >woody plants (as in the horse-chestnut, oak, etc.)". > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/08b515c8/attachment-0001.htm

From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2007.11.26 at 21:47:03(16742) ted.held at us.henkel.com Sent: Mon 11/26/07 8:43 PM Reply-to: Discussion of aroids (aroid-l at gizmoworks.com) To: Discussion of aroids (aroid-l at gizmoworks.com) Security scan upon download Trend Micro ? logo Attachments: ATT00001 (0.1 KB) Dear Ted, I`ll give it my best shot---in "The Genera of Araceae'' By Mayo, Bogner and Boyce, in the Glossary, pg. 310, it says-- "cataphyll--a modified leaf which lacks a blade and in appearance corresponds to a petiole sheath; may be used to describe other leaf types whose techinal names are defined by position rather than form, e.g. prophylls are usually of cataphyl shape in Araceae, see phrophyll." "prophyll--the first leaf of a branch (or sypodial unit); in Araceae almost always a 2-keeled cataphyll, often confused with cataphyll:-- cataphyll refers to a particular type of morphology (reduced leaf), prophyll refers to the position of the leaf along a branch." If one reads some of the descriptions of genera, one gets a better idea and understanding of these structures, especially when one views the excellent line illustrations and compares the text to the illustrations. For example when discussing Philodendron, they state-- "LEAVES: Numerous, small to gigantic, prophylls of mature stems caducous, marcescent and decidous or persistent and membranaceous or decomposing to net-fibrous remains." In Anthurium---"LEAVES: prophylls and cataphylls usually +- persistent, entire (membranaceous) or rotting to a fibrous mass (net-fibrous), sometimes completely disppearing." I can only HOPE this may assist Bernhard. I wish I knew German, but Bernhard sometimes visits with Josef Bogner, so I feel certain that Josef can set him straight! The Best, Julius +More >>Readers may remember a note from Bernhard in a recent posting as follows: @ English native speakers/botanists: Is cataphyll the right term in English for "Huellblatt"? Or does the term only describe covering leafs over an "underground" bud? I have had a couple of exchanges with him and have noticed that no one on the list has bellyed-up ("belly-up" is an Americanism that means to step up and take responsibility for a thing) to answer his inquiry. Perhaps it's because finding out what the heck a cataphyll is in English is not exactly trivial. The only firm reference I found was from our own Deni Bown's famous book (page 41 in my edition), where she is at pains to differentiate between extensions of the basic leaf ("sheaths" in her example) and complete modified leaves (cataphylls) that shield or protect internodes. Or some such. I have reviewed a number of botany books in my possession and none of them have "cataphyll" 'in the index, even those that helpfully provide glossaries of technical botanical terms. I even checked the definitive dictionary of the English language, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). "Cataphyll" is not an entry in the Second Edition (copyright 2000). But it has an entry for "Cataphyllary", being an adjective for a noun not listed. The definition is: "the colorless or brownish scales found on various parts of plants, esp. underground, regarded as modifications of foliage leaves". The first reference listed is from 1875. The definition there is "Scale or 'Cataphyllary -Leaves' are usually produced on underground shoots . . although they also frequently occur above ground, especially as an envelope to the winter-buds of woody plants (as in the horse-chestnut, oak, etc.)". The OED says the term comes from two Greek words meaning "degraded" and "leaf". Bernhard's suggestion of the German term "Huellblatt", meaning literally a "hull-leaf" seems to accord with the definition matching the winter-bud idea. Attempts to find "cataphyll" (or "Huellblatt" for that matter) in my German-English dictionary and a couple of on-line translation resources were unsuccessful. It seems to me that the idea of a tough, protective "hull-leaf" is not what we generally mean on Aroid-l by a cataphyll. The soft cataphylls shown by Deni Bown on the Anthurium do not seem to me to be of this "hull" sort. In Cryptocoryne (my own specialty, such as it is) what I refer to as cataphylls are even more prominent and leaf-like. Think of the Anthurium cataphylls being 10% to 25% or so the size of a normal leaf and fully green (compared with the idea of them being "colorless or brownish" from the OED). They are also persistent and do not dry and wither away like you might see on an Anthurium. Cryptocoryne leaves have distinctive, and often very elongated petioles (stalks). Cryptocoryne cataphylls do not have petioles. Some Cryptocoryne do not seem to grow cataphylls, while others, such as C. pontederifolia, have conspicuous ones. Anyway, the point of this is to have one of our list botanists explain what is meant by "cataphyll" as it relates to aroids. If you also have a translation into German that would be a bonus. Ted.

From: tindomul1of9 at yahoo.com (Tindomul Er-Murazor) on 2007.11.27 at 14:45:28(16750) A cataphyll are often membranous scale leaves, sometimes have no chlorophyll, and often protect surrounding vegetative or floral meristems. In monocotyledons such as our Aroids, the first leaf on a shoot (the prophyll) is often represented by a cataphyll and differs greatly in size and morphology to more distal leaves on the that axis. My reference is Plant Form An illustrated guide to flowering plant morphology by Adrian D. Bell Oxford University Press 1991 I will look for more references if I can. +More aroid-l-request at gizmoworks.com wrote: Send Aroid-L mailing list submissions to aroid-l at www.gizmoworks.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aroid-l-request at www.gizmoworks.com You can reach the person managing the list at aroid-l-owner at www.gizmoworks.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Aroid-L digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dracontium prancei questions and answers . (Daniel Devor) 2. What's a Cataphyll? (ted.held at us.henkel.com) 3. Re: What's a Cataphyll? (Michael Pascall) 4. Re: What's a Cataphyll? (Jonathan Ertelt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:01:15 -0500 From: "Daniel Devor" Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Dracontium prancei questions and answers . To: "Discussion of aroids" Message-ID: <003c01c83034$cf31f710$6b01a8c0 at DGV7XFC1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks George and Michael, This is definately the easiest species I have tried (even easier and a much nicer plant than polyphyllum for me) of the Dracontium. For anyone in a non-hospitable climate I can recommend this species as one to try if you have not had success with Dracontium. I grow it for the winter in front of a south facing window is all here in zone 6a. It is just starting a new growth now (maybe 1 m tall so far, but the leaf has not yet begun to really inflate) so maybe next spring I will repot (I rarely repot so have only seen the tuber once since I got it from you Michael). I get a new petiole about once every 4-6 months now that it is a bit more mature. I've also noticed that the new growth does not come out looking like a sheppards hook like the other species I have, but instead comes out pointing straight up, but perhaps this is a curiosity of only my plant and not the species? Next time I repot if the babies have some roots I will cut a couple off and see if they grow well for me!! Thanks for all of the suggestions, Dan Dan Devor Gibsonia, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Pascall To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Dracontium prancei questions and answers . I am very confident of the ID of this species , you have seen pictures of it many years ago Julius . We discussed it privately for a while with David Scherberich. Dan , you will get ofsets from this plant , and they will grow roots when still attached to the mother tuber . They need to be cut off , unlike the easily seperated tubercles that form on most other species. I think you may get a flower if you let it stress a little in mid winter . If you repot frequently , pay attention to the tuber shape , when it gets nearly round it should flower . And afterwards , you would see it will be more disc shaped [like a flying saucer] this explains how they work down to the bottom of the pot . I have noticed it grows easily and only slows down towards spring . I have several planted out under the edge of a large mango tree , they are looking good . Maybe a high P fert. like a bloom booster would help flowering , but I agree who needs a flower ? , its just a cool looking easy to grow species . Michael Pascall, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check our comprehensive Salary Centre Overpaid or Underpaid? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/5fdc76e5/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:02:10 -0500 From: ted.held at us.henkel.com Subject: [Aroid-l] What's a Cataphyll? To: Discussion of aroids Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Readers may remember a note from Bernhard in a recent posting as follows: @ English native speakers/botanists: Is cataphyll the right term in English for "Huellblatt"? Or does the term only describe covering leafs over an "underground" bud? I have had a couple of exchanges with him and have noticed that no one on the list has bellyed-up ("belly-up" is an Americanism that means to step up and take responsibility for a thing) to answer his inquiry. Perhaps it's because finding out what the heck a cataphyll is in English is not exactly trivial. The only firm reference I found was from our own Deni Bown's famous book (page 41 in my edition), where she is at pains to differentiate between extensions of the basic leaf ("sheaths" in her example) and complete modified leaves (cataphylls) that shield or protect internodes. Or some such. I have reviewed a number of botany books in my possession and none of them have "cataphyll" 'in the index, even those that helpfully provide glossaries of technical botanical terms. I even checked the definitive dictionary of the English language, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). "Cataphyll" is not an entry in the Second Edition (copyright 2000). But it has an entry for "Cataphyllary", being an adjective for a noun not listed. The definition is: "the colorless or brownish scales found on various parts of plants, esp. underground, regarded as modifications of foliage leaves". The first reference listed is from 1875. The definition there is "Scale or 'Cataphyllary -Leaves' are usually produced on underground shoots . . although they also frequently occur above ground, especially as an envelope to the winter-buds of woody plants (as in the horse-chestnut, oak, etc.)". The OED says the term comes from two Greek words meaning "degraded" and "leaf". Bernhard's suggestion of the German term "Huellblatt", meaning literally a "hull-leaf" seems to accord with the definition matching the winter-bud idea. Attempts to find "cataphyll" (or "Huellblatt" for that matter) in my German-English dictionary and a couple of on-line translation resources were unsuccessful. It seems to me that the idea of a tough, protective "hull-leaf" is not what we generally mean on Aroid-l by a cataphyll. The soft cataphylls shown by Deni Bown on the Anthurium do not seem to me to be of this "hull" sort. In Cryptocoryne (my own specialty, such as it is) what I refer to as cataphylls are even more prominent and leaf-like. Think of the Anthurium cataphylls being 10% to 25% or so the size of a normal leaf and fully green (compared with the idea of them being "colorless or brownish" from the OED). They are also persistent and do not dry and wither away like you might see on an Anthurium. Cryptocoryne leaves have distinctive, and often very elongated petioles (stalks). Cryptocoryne cataphylls do not have petioles. Some Cryptocoryne do not seem to grow cataphylls, while others, such as C. pontederifolia, have conspicuous ones. Anyway, the point of this is to have one of our list botanists explain what is meant by "cataphyll" as it relates to aroids. If you also have a translation into German that would be a bonus. Ted. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/0690f8f0/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:02:16 +1000 From: Michael Pascall Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] What's a Cataphyll? To: Discussion of aroids Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Drancontiums produce cataphylls , it is an identifying characteristic for some species . It was pointed out to me that Dracontium prancei has a large cataphyll protecting the flower . It is usually higher than the base of the flower . It is very short lived and withers away , thus not appearing in Dans photo . You will see a good example in David Scherberichs fantastic photos of Dracontium nivosum , especially the first 2 in the sequence . Michael Pascall, _________________________________________________________________ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_tv4581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071127/fe2c785b/attachment.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:34:55 -0600 From: Jonathan Ertelt Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] What's a Cataphyll? To: Discussion of aroids Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" D. Swartz. Collegiate Dictionary of Botany. 1971. cataphyll - a scale-like leaf as found in buds, cotyledons, rhyzomes, etc.; any rudimentary scale-like leaf which precedes the foliage leaf; the German Niederblatter, an underleaf; a leaf present at the beginning of growth. Hope this helps. Jonathan >Readers may remember a note from Bernhard in a recent posting as follows: > >@ English native speakers/botanists: Is cataphyll the right term in >English for "Huellblatt"? Or does the term only describe covering >leafs over an "underground" bud? > >I have had a couple of exchanges with him and have noticed that no >one on the list has bellyed-up ("belly-up" is an Americanism that >means to step up and take responsibility for a thing) to answer his >inquiry. Perhaps it's because finding out what the heck a cataphyll >is in English is not exactly trivial. > >The only firm reference I found was from our own Deni Bown's famous >book (page 41 in my edition), where she is at pains to differentiate >between extensions of the basic leaf ("sheaths" in her example) and >complete modified leaves (cataphylls) that shield or protect >internodes. Or some such. > >I have reviewed a number of botany books in my possession and none >of them have "cataphyll" 'in the index, even those that helpfully >provide glossaries of technical botanical terms. > >I even checked the definitive dictionary of the English language, >the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). "Cataphyll" is not an entry in >the Second Edition (copyright 2000). But it has an entry for >"Cataphyllary", being an adjective for a noun not listed. The >definition is: "the colorless or brownish scales found on various >parts of plants, esp. underground, regarded as modifications of >foliage leaves". The first reference listed is from 1875. The >definition there is "Scale or 'Cataphyllary -Leaves' are usually >produced on underground shoots . . although they also frequently >occur above ground, especially as an envelope to the winter-buds of >woody plants (as in the horse-chestnut, oak, etc.)". > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/08b515c8/attachment.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l End of Aroid-L Digest, Vol 40, Issue 30 *************************************** --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071127/e6317fa8/attachment-0001.htm

From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2007.11.28 at 01:32:53(16752) These are cataphylls: Philodendron hederaceum & Ph. bipinnatifidum http://www.wschowa.com/abrimaal/araceum/slownik/cataphyll.htm Sorry, currently no English version of the page. Marek Argent +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Tindomul Er-Murazor To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] What's a Cataphyll? A cataphyll are often membranous scale leaves, sometimes have no chlorophyll, and often protect surrounding vegetative or floral meristems. In monocotyledons such as our Aroids, the first leaf on a shoot (the prophyll) is often represented by a cataphyll and differs greatly in size and morphology to more distal leaves on the that axis. My reference is Plant Form An illustrated guide to flowering plant morphology by Adrian D. Bell Oxford University Press 1991 I will look for more references if I can. aroid-l-request at gizmoworks.com wrote: Send Aroid-L mailing list submissions to aroid-l at www.gizmoworks.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aroid-l-request at www.gizmoworks.com You can reach the person managing the list at aroid-l-owner at www.gizmoworks.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Aroid-L digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dracontium prancei questions and answers . (Daniel Devor) 2. What's a Cataphyll? (ted.held at us.henkel.com) 3. Re: What's a Cataphyll? (Michael Pascall) 4. Re: What's a Cataphyll? (Jonathan Ertelt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:01:15 -0500 From: "Daniel Devor" Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Dracontium prancei questions and answers . To: "Discussion of aroids" Message-ID: <003c01c83034$cf31f710$6b01a8c0 at DGV7XFC1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks George and Michael, This is definately the easiest species I have tried (even easier and a much nicer plant than polyphyllum for me) of the Dracontium. For anyone in a non-hospitable climate I can recommend this species as one to try if you have not had success with Dracontium. I grow it for the winter in front of a south facing window is all here in zone 6a. It is just starting a new growth now (maybe 1 m tall so far, but the leaf has not yet begun to really inflate) so maybe next spring I will repot (I rarely repot so have only seen the tuber once since I got it from you Michael). I get a new petiole about once every 4-6 months now that it is a bit more mature. I've also noticed that the new growth does not come out looking like a sheppards hook like the other species I have, but instead comes out pointing straight up, but perhaps this is a curiosity of only my plant and not the species? Next time I repot if the babies have some roots I will cut a couple off and see if they grow well for me!! Thanks for all of the suggestions, Dan Dan Devor Gibsonia, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Pascall To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Dracontium prancei questions and answers . I am very confident of the ID of this species , you have seen pictures of it many years ago Julius . We discussed it privately for a while with David Scherberich. Dan , you will get ofsets from this plant , and they will grow roots when still attached to the mother tuber . They need to be cut off , unlike the easily seperated tubercles that form on most other species. I think you may get a flower if you let it stress a little in mid winter . If you repot frequently , pay attention to the tuber shape , when it gets nearly round it should flower . And afterwards , you would see it will be more disc shaped [like a flying saucer] this explains how they work down to the bottom of the pot . I have noticed it grows easily and only slows down towards spring . I have several planted out under the edge of a large mango tree , they are looking good . Maybe a high P fert. like a bloom booster would help flowering , but I agree who needs a flower ? , its just a cool looking easy to grow species . Michael Pascall, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check our comprehensive Salary Centre Overpaid or Underpaid? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/5fdc76e5/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:02:10 -0500 From: ted.held at us.henkel.com Subject: [Aroid-l] What's a Cataphyll? To: Discussion of aroids Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Readers may remember a note from Bernhard in a recent posting as follows: @ English native speakers/botanists: Is cataphyll the right term in English for "Huellblatt"? Or does the term only describe covering leafs over an "underground" bud? I have had a couple of exchanges with him and have noticed that no one on the list has bellyed-up ("belly-up" is an Americanism that means to step up and take responsibility for a thing) to answer his inquiry. Perhaps it's because finding out what the heck a cataphyll is in English is not exactly trivial. The only firm reference I found was from our own Deni Bown's famous book (page 41 in my edition), where she is at pains to differentiate between extensions of the basic leaf ("sheaths" in her example) and complete modified leaves (cataphylls) that shield or protect internodes. Or some such. I have reviewed a number of botany books in my possession and none of them have "cataphyll" 'in the index, even those that helpfully provide glossaries of technical botanical terms. I even checked the definitive dictionary of the English language, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). "Cataphyll" is not an entry in the Second Edition (copyright 2000). But it has an entry for "Cataphyllary", being an adjective for a noun not listed. The definition is: "the colorless or brownish scales found on various parts of plants, esp. underground, regarded as modifications of foliage leaves". The first reference listed is from 1875. The definition there is "Scale or 'Cataphyllary -Leaves' are usually produced on underground shoots . . although they also frequently occur above ground, especially as an envelope to the winter-buds of woody plants (as in the horse-chestnut, oak, etc.)". The OED says the term comes from two Greek words meaning "degraded" and "leaf". Bernhard's suggestion of the German term "Huellblatt", meaning literally a "hull-leaf" seems to accord with the definition matching the winter-bud idea. Attempts to find "cataphyll" (or "Huellblatt" for that matter) in my German-English dictionary and a couple of on-line translation resources were unsuccessful. It seems to me that the idea of a tough, protective "hull-leaf" is not what we generally mean on Aroid-l by a cataphyll. The soft cataphylls shown by Deni Bown on the Anthurium do not seem to me to be of this "hull" sort. In Cryptocoryne (my own specialty, such as it is) what I refer to as cataphylls are even more prominent and leaf-like. Think of the Anthurium cataphylls being 10% to 25% or so the size of a normal leaf and fully green (compared with the idea of them being "colorless or brownish" from the OED). They are also persistent and do not dry and wither away like you might see on an Anthurium. Cryptocoryne leaves have distinctive, and often very elongated petioles (stalks). Cryptocoryne cataphylls do not have petioles. Some Cryptocoryne do not seem to grow cataphylls, while others, such as C. pontederifolia, have conspicuous ones. Anyway, the point of this is to have one of our list botanists explain what is meant by "cataphyll" as it relates to aroids. If you also have a translation into German that would be a bonus. Ted. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/0690f8f0/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:02:16 +1000 From: Michael Pascall Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] What's a Cataphyll? To: Discussion of aroids Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Drancontiums produce cataphylls , it is an identifying characteristic for some species . It was pointed out to me that Dracontium prancei has a large cataphyll protecting the flower . It is usually higher than the base of the flower . It is very short lived and withers away , thus not appearing in Dans photo . You will see a good example in David Scherberichs fantastic photos of Dracontium nivosum , especially the first 2 in the sequence . Michael Pascall, _________________________________________________________________ What are you waiting for? Join Lavalife FREE http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D30288&_tv4581033&_r=email_taglines_Join_free_OCT07&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071127/fe2c785b/attachment.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:34:55 -0600 From: Jonathan Ertelt Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] What's a Cataphyll? To: Discussion of aroids Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" D. Swartz. Collegiate Dictionary of Botany. 1971. cataphyll - a scale-like leaf as found in buds, cotyledons, rhyzomes, etc.; any rudimentary scale-like leaf which precedes the foliage leaf; the German Niederblatter, an underleaf; a leaf present at the beginning of growth. Hope this helps. Jonathan >Readers may remember a note from Bernhard in a recent posting as follows: > >@ English native speakers/botanists: Is cataphyll the right term in >English for "Huellblatt"? Or does the term only describe covering >leafs over an "underground" bud? > >I have had a couple of exchanges with him and have noticed that no >one on the list has bellyed-up ("belly-up" is an Americanism that >means to step up and take responsibility for a thing) to answer his >inquiry. Perhaps it's because finding out what the heck a cataphyll >is in English is not exactly trivial. > >The only firm reference I found was from our own Deni Bown's famous >book (page 41 in my edition), where she is at pains to differentiate >between extensions of the basic leaf ("sheaths" in her example) and >complete modified leaves (cataphylls) that shield or protect >internodes. Or some such. > >I have reviewed a number of botany books in my possession and none >of them have "cataphyll" 'in the index, even those that helpfully >provide glossaries of technical botanical terms. > >I even checked the definitive dictionary of the English language, >the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). "Cataphyll" is not an entry in >the Second Edition (copyright 2000). But it has an entry for >"Cataphyllary", being an adjective for a noun not listed. The >definition is: "the colorless or brownish scales found on various >parts of plants, esp. underground, regarded as modifications of >foliage leaves". The first reference listed is from 1875. The >definition there is "Scale or 'Cataphyllary -Leaves' are usually >produced on underground shoots . . although they also frequently >occur above ground, especially as an envelope to the winter-buds of >woody plants (as in the horse-chestnut, oak, etc.)". > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20071126/08b515c8/attachment.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l End of Aroid-L Digest, Vol 40, Issue 30 *************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Never miss a thing. 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