Copyright?ay?vice

From: "Michael Mahan" <agavestar at covad.net> on 2007.07.02 at 18:04:45(15920) You are right ! My posting was not meant a Legal Advice to Anyone. Just a way to inform the members how to stop people selling on Ebay from using anyone’s photo’s . It was explained to me that Ebay could be exposed for a class action if they did not address the problem (agin this is not legal advice ) & they figured out how to make some cash by doing what they are now doing while also protecting themselves at the same time with the new policy of removing the offending auctions without refunding the listing fee’s . As Michael Pascall pointed out the bromeliad folks are way on top of their images as they should be as their data base is huge with some Very fine photo’s of some really rare plants Michael Mahan (who is not a lawyer & not offering any legal advice to anyone ) Subject: [Aroid-l] Copyright +More First, please understand that I am NOT a lawyer. I am assuming that others who have opinions on this and contribute to this list are also not lawyers. Why that is important is that if you are not a lawyer, your opinion weighs in a lot less, especially if you are attempting to offer legal advice. At the very least, your opinion carries no weight. Worse, you might lead someone astray if they try to follow your advice. Worst of all, you may run afoul of laws about practicing law without a license. Just keep in mind where you stand. Second, understand that Steve is right about what a copyright allows you to do. It allows you to bring a court action. It does not mean you are going to win. It also does not mean you will be able to collect even if you do. This is just one of those hard things you need to know these days. So, what if someone uses your image without your consent? OK, you cough up a couple of thousand for a lawyer as a retainer and an advance on expenses. Then the lawyer has to track down the offender, which may be difficult. Then the suit needs to be filed, making claims. What are the claims for a guy stealing your image for e-Bay? If the item sells for $50, let us say, you might be able to argue that your image raised his selling price by $10? Is that fair? Maybe, if you're lucky, you get the whole $50 at stake. Then you might try for court costs or some sort of pain and suffering. Hmm. Maybe your original $2000 plus $50. This is small claims territory. And even if you get a judgment, how are you gonna collect? More legal hassles. I think you see what I am getting at. Sometimes it's not worth the trouble. It's one thing to sue a deep pockets offender like General Motors. It's quite another to sue some lowlife bum who steals a picture off the internet. I'm glad e-Bay has the policy described because I don't think there are many other options. So, where does that get us? It gets us back to Steve's other statement. It's a matter of courtesy and common decency to ask first and make the proper attribution. Decency? Courtesy? When was the last time those came up? Put me down as an old fashioned guy who still believes in doing the right thing. Remember, I am not a lawyer. Ted. _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Wayne" <wmrazek at argotech.net> on 2007.07.03 at 03:44:28(15932) This topic has been interesting. I had not considered how valuable photos are considered until Alan posted he was removing pictures from his site because people were copying them. I think listing a link to a site in an auction should be OK, as most people publish to the web with the intent to generate traffic, the more the better. But I don't see how Ebay can get in the middle of a dispute of who owns a picture. It sounds like I can shut down anybody's auction by emailing Ebay and claiming the photo is mine? Wayne +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Mahan To: 'Discussion of aroids' Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice You are right ! My posting was not meant a Legal Advice to Anyone. Just a way to inform the members how to stop people selling on Ebay from using anyone?s photo?s . It was explained to me that Ebay could be exposed for a class action if they did not address the problem (agin this is not legal advice ) & they figured out how to make some cash by doing what they are now doing while also protecting themselves at the same time with the new policy of removing the offending auctions without refunding the listing fee?s . As Michael Pascall pointed out the bromeliad folks are way on top of their images as they should be as their data base is huge with some Very fine photo?s of some really rare plants Michael Mahan (who is not a lawyer & not offering any legal advice to anyone ) From: tedSubject: [Aroid-l] Copyright First, please understand that I am NOT a lawyer. I am assuming that others who have opinions on this and contribute to this list are also not lawyers. Why that is important is that if you are not a lawyer, your opinion weighs in a lot less, especially if you are attempting to offer legal advice. At the very least, your opinion carries no weight. Worse, you might lead someone astray if they try to follow your advice. Worst of all, you may run afoul of laws about practicing law without a license. Just keep in mind where you stand. Second, understand that Steve is right about what a copyright allows you to do. It allows you to bring a court action. It does not mean you are going to win. It also does not mean you will be able to collect even if you do. This is just one of those hard things you need to know these days. So, what if someone uses your image without your consent? OK, you cough up a couple of thousand for a lawyer as a retainer and an advance on expenses. Then the lawyer has to track down the offender, which may be difficult. Then the suit needs to be filed, making claims. What are the claims for a guy stealing your image for e-Bay? If the item sells for $50, let us say, you might be able to argue that your image raised his selling price by $10? Is that fair? Maybe, if you're lucky, you get the whole $50 at stake. Then you might try for court costs or some sort of pain and suffering. Hmm. Maybe your original $2000 plus $50. This is small claims territory. And even if you get a judgment, how are you gonna collect? More legal hassles. I think you see what I am getting at. Sometimes it's not worth the trouble. It's one thing to sue a deep pockets offender like General Motors. It's quite another to sue some lowlife bum who steals a picture off the internet. I'm glad e-Bay has the policy described because I don't think there are many other options. So, where does that get us? It gets us back to Steve's other statement. It's a matter of courtesy and common decency to ask first and make the proper attribution. Decency? Courtesy? When was the last time those came up? Put me down as an old fashioned guy who still believes in doing the right thing. Remember, I am not a lawyer. Ted. _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Tony Avent <tony at plantdelights.com> on 2007.07.03 at 15:47:07(15935) Aroiders: It's been discussed before, but stolen photos used on the web are governed by the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act). It does work since I know of entire websites that have been shut down for using copyrighted photos. You'll find this link an interesting read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA Tony Avent +More Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Wayne wrote: > This topic has been interesting. I had not considered how valuable > photos are considered until Alan posted he was removing pictures from > his site because people were copying them. I think listing a link to a > site in an auction should be OK, as most people publish to the web > with the intent to generate traffic, the more the better. > But I don't see how Ebay can get in the middle of a dispute of who > owns a picture. It sounds like I can shut down anybody's auction by > emailing Ebay and claiming the photo is mine? > Wayne > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael Mahan > *To:* 'Discussion of aroids' > *Sent:* Monday, July 02, 2007 11:04 AM > *Subject:* [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice > > You are right ! My posting was not meant a Legal Advice to Anyone. > Just a way to inform the members how to stop people selling on > Ebay from using anyone’s photo’s . It was explained to me that > Ebay could be exposed for a class action if they did not address > the problem (agin this is not legal advice ) & they figured out > how to make some cash by doing what they are now doing while also > protecting themselves at the same time with the new policy of > removing the offending auctions without refunding the listing > fee’s . As Michael Pascall pointed out the bromeliad folks are way > on top of their images as they should be as their data base is > huge with some Very fine photo’s of some really rare plants > Michael Mahan (who is not a lawyer & not offering any legal advice > to anyone ) > > *From:* ted > *Subject:* [Aroid-l] Copyright > > > First, please understand that I am NOT a lawyer. I am assuming > that others who have opinions on this and contribute to this list > are also not lawyers. Why that is important is that if you are not > a lawyer, your opinion weighs in a lot less, especially if you are > attempting to offer legal advice. At the very least, your opinion > carries no weight. Worse, you might lead someone astray if they > try to follow your advice. Worst of all, you may run afoul of laws > about practicing law without a license. Just keep in mind where > you stand. > > Second, understand that Steve is right about what a copyright > allows you to do. It allows you to bring a court action. It does > not mean you are going to win. It also does not mean you will be > able to collect even if you do. This is just one of those hard > things you need to know these days. > > So, what if someone uses your image without your consent? OK, you > cough up a couple of thousand for a lawyer as a retainer and an > advance on expenses. Then the lawyer has to track down the > offender, which may be difficult. Then the suit needs to be filed, > making claims. What are the claims for a guy stealing your image > for e-Bay? If the item sells for $50, let us say, you might be > able to argue that your image raised his selling price by $10? Is > that fair? Maybe, if you're lucky, you get the whole $50 at stake. > Then you might try for court costs or some sort of pain and > suffering. Hmm. Maybe your original $2000 plus $50. This is small > claims territory. And even if you get a judgment, how are you > gonna collect? More legal hassles. > > I think you see what I am getting at. Sometimes it's not worth the > trouble. It's one thing to sue a deep pockets offender like > General Motors. It's quite another to sue some lowlife bum who > steals a picture off the internet. I'm glad e-Bay has the policy > described because I don't think there are many other options. > > So, where does that get us? It gets us back to Steve's other > statement. It's a matter of courtesy and common decency to ask > first and make the proper attribution. Decency? Courtesy? When was > the last time those came up? Put me down as an old fashioned guy > who still believes in doing the right thing. Remember, I am not a > lawyer. > > Ted. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: anton huang <anton_huang84 at hotmail.com> on 2007.07.06 at 10:32:13(15951) Dear all aroiders, My personal opinion, i think for personal protection of our photos,pictures, illustrations or anything that we want to publish it online, we should put watermark (logo of your company, or your name) into it. So when people start using it, they know it belongs to who..(or even put your email in it). That's my suggestion. I hope it help. Kind regards, Anton +More > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:47:07 -0400> From: tony@plantdelights.com> To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice> > Aroiders:> > It's been discussed before, but stolen photos used on the web are > governed by the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act). It does work > since I know of entire websites that have been shut down for using > copyrighted photos. You'll find this link an interesting read. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA> > Tony Avent> Plant Delights Nursery @> Juniper Level Botanic Garden> 9241 Sauls Road> Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA> Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F> Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F> USDA Hardiness Zone 7b> email tony@plantdelights.com> website http://www.plantdelights.com> phone 919 772-4794> fax 919 772-4752> "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent> > > > Wayne wrote:> > This topic has been interesting. I had not considered how valuable > > photos are considered until Alan posted he was removing pict ures from > > his site because people were copying them. I think listing a link to a > > site in an auction should be OK, as most people publish to the web > > with the intent to generate traffic, the more the better.> > But I don't see how Ebay can get in the middle of a dispute of who > > owns a picture. It sounds like I can shut down anybody's auction by > > emailing Ebay and claiming the photo is mine?> > Wayne> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > *From:* Michael Mahan > > *To:* 'Discussion of aroids' > > *Sent:* Monday, July 02, 2007 11:04 AM> > *Subject:* [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice> >> > You are right ! My posting was not meant a Legal Advice to Anyone.> > Just a way to inform the members how to stop people selling on> > Ebay from using anyone’s photo’s . It was explained to me that> > Ebay could be exposed for a class action if they did not address> > the problem (agin this is not legal advice ) & they figured out> > ho w to make some cash by doing what they are now doing while also> > protecting themselves at the same time with the new policy of> > removing the offending auctions without refunding the listing> > fee’s . As Michael Pascall pointed out the bromeliad folks are way> > on top of their images as they should be as their data base is> > huge with some Very fine photo’s of some really rare plants> > Michael Mahan (who is not a lawyer & not offering any legal advice> > to anyone )> >> > *From:* ted> > *Subject:* [Aroid-l] Copyright> >> >> > First, please understand that I am NOT a lawyer. I am assuming> > that others who have opinions on this and contribute to this list> > are also not lawyers. Why that is important is that if you are not> > a lawyer, your opinion weighs in a lot less, especially if you are> > attempting to offer legal advice. At the very least, your opinion> > carries no weight. Worse, you might lead someone astray if they> > try to follow your advice. Worst of all, you may run af oul of laws> > about practicing law without a license. Just keep in mind where> > you stand.> >> > Second, understand that Steve is right about what a copyright> > allows you to do. It allows you to bring a court action. It does> > not mean you are going to win. It also does not mean you will be> > able to collect even if you do. This is just one of those hard> > things you need to know these days.> >> > So, what if someone uses your image without your consent? OK, you> > cough up a couple of thousand for a lawyer as a retainer and an> > advance on expenses. Then the lawyer has to track down the> > offender, which may be difficult. Then the suit needs to be filed,> > making claims. What are the claims for a guy stealing your image> > for e-Bay? If the item sells for $50, let us say, you might be> > able to argue that your image raised his selling price by $10? Is> > that fair? Maybe, if you're lucky, you get the whole $50 at stake.> > Then you might try for court costs or some sort of pain and> > suffering. Hmm. Maybe your original $2000 plus $50. This is small> > claims territory. And even if you get a judgment, how are you> > gonna collect? More legal hassles.> >> > I think you see what I am getting at. Sometimes it's not worth the> > trouble. It's one thing to sue a deep pockets offender like> > General Motors. It's quite another to sue some lowlife bum who> > steals a picture off the internet. I'm glad e-Bay has the policy> > described because I don't think there are many other options.> >> > So, where does that get us? It gets us back to Steve's other> > statement. It's a matter of courtesy and common decency to ask> > first and make the proper attribution. Decency? Courtesy? When was> > the last time those came up? Put me down as an old fashioned guy> > who still believes in doing the right thing. Remember, I am not a> > lawyer.> >> > Ted.> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> > Aroid-L mailing list> > Aroid-L@www .gizmoworks.com> > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > _______________________________________________> > Aroid-L mailing list> > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com> > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l> > > _______________________________________________> Aroid-L mailing list> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-lWindows Live Spaces is here! It’s easy to create your own personal Web site. Check it out! _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ExoticRainforest" <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2007.07.06 at 16:31:14(15953) Great suggestion. The problem is anyone who has PhotoShop can remove it in minutes. So far, no program I've uncovered has been able to defeat a creative (or devious) PhotoShop user. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- From: anton huang To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 5:32 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice Dear all aroiders, My personal opinion, i think for personal protection of our photos,pictures, illustrations or anything that we want to publish it online, we should put watermark (logo of your company, or your name) into it. So when people start using it, they know it belongs to who..(or even put your email in it). That's my suggestion. I hope it help. Kind regards, Anton > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:47:07 -0400> From: tony@plantdelights.com> To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice> > Aroiders:> > It's been discussed before, but stolen photos used on the web are > governed by the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act). It does work > since I know of entire websites that have been shut down for using > copyrighted photos. You'll find this link an interesting read. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA> > Tony Avent> Plant Delights Nursery @> Juniper Level Botanic Garden> 9241 Sauls Road> Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA> Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F> Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F> USDA Hardiness Zone 7b> email tony@plantdelights.com> website http://www.plantdelights.com> phone 919 772-4794> fax 919 772-4752> "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent> > > > Wayne wrote:> > This topic has been interesting. I had not considered how valuable > > photos are considered until Alan posted he was removing pictures from > > his site because people were copying them. I think listing a link to a > > site in an auction should be OK, as most people publish to the web > > with the intent to generate traffic, the more the better.> > But I don't see how Ebay can get in the middle of a dispute of who > > owns a picture. It sounds like I can shut down anybody's auction by > > emailing Ebay and claiming the photo is mine?> > Wayne> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > *From:* Michael Mahan > > *To:* 'Discussion of aroids' > > *Sent:* Monday, July 02, 2007 11:04 AM> > *Subject:* [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice> >> > You are right ! My posting was not meant a Legal Advice to Anyone.> > Just a way to inform the members how to stop people selling on> > Ebay from using anyone’s photo’s . It was explained to me that> > Ebay could be exposed for a class action if they did not address> > the problem (agin this is not legal advice ) & they figured out> > how to make some cash by doing what they are now doing while also> > protecting themselves at the same time with the new policy of> > removing the offending auctions without refunding the listing> > fee’s . As Michael Pascall pointed out the bromeliad folks are way> > on top of their images as they should be as their data base is> > huge with some Very fine photo’s of some really rare plants> > Michael Mahan (who is not a lawyer & not offering any legal advice> > to anyone )> >> > *From:* ted> > *Subject:* [Aroid-l] Copyright> >> >> > First, please understand that I am NOT a lawyer. I am assuming> > that others who have opinions on this and contribute to this list> > are also not lawyers. Why that is important is that if you are not> > a lawyer, your opinion weighs in a lot less, especially if you are> > attempting to offer legal advice. At the very least, your opinion> > carries no weight. Worse, you might lead someone astray if they> > try to follow your advice. Worst of all, you may run afoul of laws> > about practicing law without a license. Just keep in mind where> > you stand.> >> > Second, understand that Steve is right about what a copyright> > allows you to do. It allows you to bring a court action. It does> > not mean you are going to win. It also does not mean you will be> > able to collect even if you do. This is just one of those hard> > things you need to know these days.> >> > So, what if someone uses your image without your consent? OK, you> > cough up a couple of thousand for a lawyer as a retainer and an> > advance on expenses. Then the lawyer has to track down the> > offender, which may be difficult. Then the suit needs to be filed,> > making claims. What are the claims for a guy stealing your image> > for e-Bay? If the item sells for $50, let us say, you might be> > able to argue that your image raised his selling price by $10? Is> > that fair? Maybe, if you're lucky, you get the whole $50 at stake.> > Then you might try for court costs or some sort of pain and> > suffering. Hmm. Maybe your original $2000 plus $50. This is small> > claims territory. And even if you get a judgment, how are you> > gonna collect? More legal hassles.> >> > I think you see what I am getting at. Sometimes it's not worth the> > trouble. It's one thing to sue a deep pockets offender like> > General Motors. It's quite another to sue some lowlife bum who> > steals a picture off the internet. I'm glad e-Bay has the policy> > described because I don't think there are many other options.> >> > So, where does that get us? It gets us back to Steve's other> > statement. It's a matter of courtesy and common decency to ask> > first and make the proper attribution. Decency? Courtesy? When was> > the last time those came up? Put me down as an old fashioned guy> > who still believes in doing the right thing. Remember, I am not a> > lawyer.> >> > Ted.> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> > Aroid-L mailing list> > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com> > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> >> > _______________________________________________> > Aroid-L mailing list> > Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com> > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l> > > _______________________________________________> Aroid-L mailing list> Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l Windows Live Spaces is here! It’s easy to create your own personal Web site. Check it out! _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Weaver, Bill" <bill.weaver at hp.com> on 2007.07.06 at 17:35:51(15955) I highly recommend Watermark Factory ( http://www.watermarkfactory.com/ ) It will watermark as many files as you want. Plus, once you get a watermark you like, you can save it and use it over and over. Bill Weaver +More [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of anton huangSent: Friday, July 06, 2007 03:32To: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] Copyrightëay­vice Dear all aroiders, My personal opinion, i think for personal protection of our photos,pictures, illustrations or anything that we want to publish it online, we should put watermark (logo of your company, or your name) into it. So when people start using it, they know it belongs to who..(or even put your email in it). That's my suggestion. I hope it help. Kind regards, Anton _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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