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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
Natural Hybrid/ Alocasia cucullata (Lour) G. Don
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From: Dan Levin <levin at pixar.com> on 2007.03.30 at 16:42:35(15534)
Folks,I highly suspect you'll find the Alocasia cucullata clone which Tony Avent hasunder cultivation in North Carolina (available thru PDN) to be of great interest.Please see: http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04795.htmlLook familiar-?!!I was so convinced a layout error had occurred when I first came across thisimage that I sent Tony an email, about a month ago, suggesting someone hadswapped his images of A. cucullata and A. odora. Here follows Tony's reply*:"I checked the images and believe it or not, they are not reversed. Our oldest clumps of A. cucculata changed appearance dramatically as they matured to look more like a dwarf clump of A. odora that what we typically think of as A. cucculata. We were quite surprised, but the two photos of A. cuculata are the same clone...just several years apart. If you look close you'll see few immature leaves toward the top and note that even the mature leaves still have the characteristic tw
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isted tip of A. cuculata. The plant pictured as A. odora is actually correct also, although it is photographed early in the season. I wouldn't believe this either unless I'd seen the plants in person and took the photos. Both id's have been confirmed in person by quite a few aroid authorities."Are we witnessing a spontaneous mutation, coincidentally occurring 7,700kmand an ocean apart? Is this particular variation genetically encoded in one ormore lines of Alocasia cucullata, i.e. do these two individual plants in HI and NCsomehow share common ancestry? I leave it to finer minds than my own to decipher. -Dan*TA: my apologies for posting this without your prior permission... On Mar 30, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Denis Rotolante wrote: Could proposed natural hybrid merely be an aneuploid or polyploid seedling of Alocasia cucullata with thicker, broader leaves and more pronounced interveinal puckering? Whatever it is it is an improvement over pl
ain old A. cucullata. See if it gets bigger than the standard cucullata when it matures. Denis Silver Krome Gardens -----Original Message-----From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of alocasiaSent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:24 PMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] Natural Hybrid The 'thing' is off course interesant,and seem to have both part of colocasia gigantea and alocasia cuculata.... But i don't think that the last pic(but pic number 1) is colocasia gigantea.Colocasia have more round leaves,in all plants that i know.This plant seem more a xanthosoma for me.And if i know that some cross were made between colocasia and alocasia,i don't think that it could be possible between xanthosoma and alocasia.Mr Hay?Mr Boyce?What are thinking the experts? ----- Original Message ----- From: Windy Aubrey To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:50 PM Subject: [
Aroid-l] Natural Hybrid Hi, I thought this might be of interest to some of you Aroiders out there, so I thought I would share these images of something I found growing in the yard, and the two plants I suspect this new plant came from. In our yard, here on Oahu, we have a large patch of Colocasia gigantea growing somewhat wild and we also have two old Alocasia cuculata 'shrubs'. While clearing out some white ginger that was taking over, I came upon a small plant of something that was definitely different appearing from anything else in the yard. I cleared around it and let it grow. It's now been about 8 months since this discovery and it is turning out to be a really interesting plant. The blades are developing an interesting pucker between the veins. This characteristic is becoming more pronounced with each new blade as they harden off. I'll be interested in seeing if it obtains the proportions
of the Colocasia gigantea. My only explanation for this plant is that it must be a natural hybrid of the two. Does anyone know if Alocasia cuculata been crossed with Colocasia gigantea intentionally before? and what do you call an Alocasia X Colocasia? Thanks, Windy Aubrey _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release Date: 26/03/07 14:31_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________
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From: "Peter Boyce" <botanist at malesiana.com> on 2007.03.31 at 23:42:18(15539)
What interests me most is that A.
cucullata is itself (together with A. macrorrhizos) something of
an enigma. It is not known in the wild and throughout its 'natural' range is
only ever found in association with human disturbance. Those of you familiar
with Thailand and Indo-China will have seen it most often planted in the
compounds of Buddhist temples where it is favoured as 'lucky' or, if you ask
older monks and nuns, because it is believed to protect the temple from evil
spirits and well as bad luck. In Lao I have seen it planted for the same purpose
around the communal rice stores in villages of several of the hill tribe
peoples.
My point here is that in all probability A.
cucullata is a stabilized culton of perhaps A. odora (which is
indigenous and widespread throughout the 'range' of A. cucullata)
maintained for the most part by human intervention, or maybe a hybrid of A.
odora and/or A. macrorrhizos. There is a possibility that what we
are witnessing is a 'reversion' to the progenitor or one of the progeniting
parents. However, I hasten to add that I am no geneticist and that is this all,
perhaps fanciful, speculation.
Peter
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----- Original Message -----
From:
Dan Levin
To: Discussion of aroids
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:42
AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Natural Hybrid/
Alocasia cucullata (Lour) G. Don
Folks,
I highly suspect you'll find the Alocasia cucullata clone which Tony
Avent has
under cultivation in North Carolina (available thru PDN) to be of
great interest.
Please see: http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04795.html
Look familiar-?!!
I was so convinced a layout error had occurred when I first came across
this
image that I sent Tony an email, about a month ago,
suggesting someone had
swapped his images of A. cucullata and A. odora.
Here follows Tony's reply*:
"I checked the images and believe it or not, they are not reversed.
Our oldest clumps of A. cucculata changed appearance dramatically as they
matured to look more like a dwarf clump of A. odora that what we typically
think of as A. cucculata. We were quite surprised, but the two photos of
A. cuculata are the same clone...just several years apart. If you look
close you'll see few immature leaves toward the top and note that even the
mature leaves still have the characteristic twisted tip of A. cuculata.
The plant pictured as A. odora is actually correct also, although it is
photographed early in the season. I wouldn't believe this either unless
I'd seen the plants in person and took the photos. Both id's have been
confirmed in person by quite a few aroid authorities."
Are we witnessing a spontaneous mutation, coincidentally
occurring 7,700km
and an ocean apart? Is this particular variation
genetically encoded in one or
more lines of Alocasia cucullata, i.e. do these two individual plants in
HI and NC
somehow share common ancestry? I leave it to finer minds
than my own to decipher.
-Dan
*TA: my apologies for posting this without your prior
permission...
On Mar 30, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Denis Rotolante wrote:
Could proposed natural hybrid merely be an
aneuploid or polyploid seedling of Alocasia cucullata with thicker, broader
leaves and more pronounced interveinal puckering? Whatever it is it is an
improvement over plain old A. cucullata. See if it gets bigger than the
standard cucullata when it matures.
Denis
Silver Krome Gardens
-----Original Message-----From:
aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]
On Behalf Of alocasiaSent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:24
PMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l]
Natural Hybrid
The 'thing' is off course interesant,and seem
to have both
part of colocasia gigantea and alocasia
cuculata....
But i don't think that the last pic(but pic
number 1) is colocasia gigantea.Colocasia have more round
leaves,in
all plants that i know.This plant seem more a
xanthosoma
for me.And if i know that some cross were
made between colocasia and alocasia,i don't think that it could be
possible between xanthosoma and alocasia.Mr Hay?Mr Boyce?What are thinking
the experts?
----- Original Message -----
From:
Windy
Aubrey
To: Discussion of aroids
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007
10:50 PM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Natural
Hybrid
Hi,
I thought this might be of interest to some of
you Aroiders out there, so I thought I would share these images of
something I found growing in the yard, and the two plants I suspect this
new plant came from.
In our yard, here on Oahu, we have
a large patch of Colocasia gigantea growing somewhat wild and we also
have two old Alocasia cuculata 'shrubs'.
While clearing out some white ginger that
was taking over, I came upon a small plant of something that was
definitely different appearing from anything else in the yard. I
cleared around it and let it grow.
It's now been about 8 months since this
discovery and it is turning out to be a really interesting
plant.
The blades are developing an interesting
pucker between the veins. This characteristic is becoming more
pronounced with each new blade as they harden off.
I'll be interested in seeing if it obtains
the proportions of the Colocasia gigantea.
My only explanation for this plant is that
it must be a natural hybrid of the two.
Does anyone know if Alocasia cuculata
been crossed with Colocasia gigantea intentionally before? and
what do you call an Alocasia X Colocasia?
Thanks, Windy Aubrey
_______________________________________________Aroid-l
mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
No virus found in this
incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.446 /
Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release Date: 26/03/07
14:31
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From: "Alistair Hay" <ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2007.04.03 at 01:36:23(15543)
I agree with Peter on this though I don't see much sign of A. macrorrhizos in A. cucullata: it is very likely close to odora and possibly a cultigen and sport from it.
I have seen what seemed to be an intermediate clone (between odora and cucullata) in a taro germ plasm collection in Hanoi which was rather similar to the plant under discussion here.
What interests me most is that A. cucullata is itself (together with A. macrorrhizos) something of an enigma. It is not known in the wild and throughout its 'natural' range is only ever found in association with human disturbance. Those of you familiar with Thailand and Indo-China will have seen it most often planted in the compounds of Buddhist temples where it is favoured as 'lucky' or, if you ask older monks and nuns, because it is believed to protect the temple from evil spirits and well as bad luck. In Lao I have seen it planted for the same purpose around the communal rice stores in villages of several of the hill tribe peoples.
My point here is that in all probability A. cucullata is a stabilized culton of perhaps A. odora (which is indigenous and widespread throughout the 'range' of A. cucullata) maintained for the most part by human intervention, or maybe a hybrid of A. odora and/or A. macrorrhizos. There is a possibility that what we are witnessing is a 'reversion' to the progenitor or one of the progeniting parents. However, I hasten to add that I am no geneticist and that is this all, perhaps fanciful, speculation.
Peter
| +More |
----- Original Message -----
To: Discussion of aroids
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Natural Hybrid/ Alocasia cucullata (Lour) G. Don
Folks,
I highly suspect you'll find the Alocasia cucullata clone which Tony Avent has
under cultivation in North Carolina (available thru PDN) to be of great interest.
Please see: http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/04795.html
Look familiar-?!!
I was so convinced a layout error had occurred when I first came across this
image that I sent Tony an email, about a month ago, suggesting someone had
swapped his images of A. cucullata and A. odora. Here follows Tony's reply*:
"I checked the images and believe it or not, they are not reversed. Our oldest clumps of A. cucculata changed appearance dramatically as they matured to look more like a dwarf clump of A. odora that what we typically think of as A. cucculata. We were quite surprised, but the two photos of A. cuculata are the same clone...just several years apart. If you look close you'll see few immature leaves toward the top and note that even the mature leaves still have the characteristic twisted tip of A. cuculata. The plant pictured as A. odora is actually correct also, although it is photographed early in the season. I wouldn't believe this either unless I'd seen the plants in person and took the photos. Both id's have been confirmed in person by quite a few aroid authorities."
Are we witnessing a spontaneous mutation, coincidentally occurring 7,700km
and an ocean apart? Is this particular variation genetically encoded in one or
more lines of Alocasia cucullata, i.e. do these two individual plants in HI and NC
somehow share common ancestry? I leave it to finer minds than my own to decipher.
-Dan
*TA: my apologies for posting this without your prior permission...
On Mar 30, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Denis Rotolante wrote:
Could proposed natural hybrid merely be an aneuploid or polyploid seedling of Alocasia cucullata with thicker, broader leaves and more pronounced interveinal puckering? Whatever it is it is an improvement over plain old A. cucullata. See if it gets bigger than the standard cucullata when it matures.
Denis
Silver Krome Gardens
-----Original Message-----From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of alocasiaSent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 1:24 PMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] Natural Hybrid
The 'thing' is off course interesant,and seem to have both
part of colocasia gigantea and alocasia cuculata....
But i don't think that the last pic(but pic number 1) is colocasia gigantea.Colocasia have more round leaves,in
all plants that i know.This plant seem more a xanthosoma
for me.And if i know that some cross were made between colocasia and alocasia,i don't think that it could be possible between xanthosoma and alocasia.Mr Hay?Mr Boyce?What are thinking the experts?
----- Original Message -----
To: Discussion of aroids
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Natural Hybrid
Hi,
I thought this might be of interest to some of you Aroiders out there, so I thought I would share these images of something I found growing in the yard, and the two plants I suspect this new plant came from.
In our yard, here on Oahu, we have a large patch of Colocasia gigantea growing somewhat wild and we also have two old Alocasia cuculata 'shrubs'.
While clearing out some white ginger that was taking over, I came upon a small plant of something that was definitely different appearing from anything else in the yard. I cleared around it and let it grow.
It's now been about 8 months since this discovery and it is turning out to be a really interesting plant.
The blades are developing an interesting pucker between the veins. This characteristic is becoming more pronounced with each new blade as they harden off.
I'll be interested in seeing if it obtains the proportions of the Colocasia gigantea.
My only explanation for this plant is that it must be a natural hybrid of the two.
Does anyone know if Alocasia cuculata been crossed with Colocasia gigantea intentionally before? and what do you call an Alocasia X Colocasia?
Thanks, Windy Aubrey
_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release Date: 26/03/07 14:31
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From: "Michael Pascall" <mickpascall at hotmail.com> on 2007.04.03 at 06:17:02(15544)
Michael Ferrero imported a very unusual Alocasia that he collected in
Vietnam imto the collection at Flecker Bot. Gdns . It looks a little like a
cucullata but all distorted in the foliage , it also has small puckered bits
underneath the leaf . It is very prolific ,
Michael Pascall,
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From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2007.04.04 at 01:30:35(15547)
Hello everybody who's interested in the "new"
Alocasia cucullata.
I have posted the photos and some of the Aroid-L
discussion posts in the Aroid ID Center.
Recently I have problems to access the IAS' www.aroid.org site,
if you have also such problems you can always
enter the ID Center using this URL: www.aroidid.prv.pl
Regards
Marek
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