"minature" M. deliciosa??

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2007.02.03 at 21:42:58(15217) Dear All, A question--what is the status of the existence of a true 'minature' clone of Monstera deliciosa, and what, it it does exist, are the measurements of a MATURE leaf of this mimature????? I THINK I remember a discussion on this back when we exchanged ideas about the non-existence of the 'red-varigated' clone of the same species which, I believe, turned out to be a photo-shopped/modified picture of the white-varigated variety of this species. I THINK I recall someone saying that the common and BIG clone of this was a selection from the wild, and if one went back to the area where this plant occured in Coastal Mexico, one would have difficulty in finding such a large clone, most wild plants of this species were substantially smaller that the big one we see everywhere in cultivation Worldwide. Any information would be welcome! Good Growing! Julius +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Tom Croat" <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2007.02.05 at 17:50:43(15223) Dear Julius: The large, heavily perforated form of Monstera deliciosa I have seen only in central Chiapas at Uspanapa, growing on limestone outcrops. As one procedes south the blades are typically smaller and often are not perforate at all. I do have a Monstera collected in Honduras that has consistently small leaves is, I believe, a close relative to Monstera deliciosa. Tom +More Tom Croat, P. A. Schulze Curator of Botany Missouri Botanical Garden Box 299, St. Louis, Missouri 63116 (314) 577-5163 Thomas.Croat@mobot.org Please send images to our FTP Server. ftp://garfile:garden2003@cissus.mobot.org/incoming/croat ftp://garfile:garden2003@cissus.mobot.org/outgoing/croat -----Original Message----- [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Julius Boos Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 3:43 PM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? Dear All, A question--what is the status of the existence of a true 'minature' clone of Monstera deliciosa, and what, it it does exist, are the measurements of a MATURE leaf of this mimature????? I THINK I remember a discussion on this back when we exchanged ideas about the non-existence of the 'red-varigated' clone of the same species which, I believe, turned out to be a photo-shopped/modified picture of the white-varigated variety of this species. I THINK I recall someone saying that the common and BIG clone of this was a selection from the wild, and if one went back to the area where this plant occured in Coastal Mexico, one would have difficulty in finding such a large clone, most wild plants of this species were substantially smaller that the big one we see everywhere in cultivation Worldwide. Any information would be welcome! Good Growing! Julius _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2007.02.05 at 21:05:35(15226) Hello, This "compact" Monstera deliciosa is named M.d. "Borsigiana" or sometimes M.d. var. borsigiana, but this is rather a cultivar, not a natural variety. The largest leaf I've seen was about 40 cm (1' 4") in diameter. http://www.wschowa.com/abrimaal/araceum/monstera/pertusa.htm Don't be deceived by the filename "pertusa", once I thought it was M. pertusa, and I don't change filenames in my website because some other sites have direct links to my pages. Greetings +More Marek Argent ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 10:42 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? Dear All, A question--what is the status of the existence of a true 'minature' clone of Monstera deliciosa, and what, it it does exist, are the measurements of a MATURE leaf of this mimature????? I THINK I remember a discussion on this back when we exchanged ideas about the non-existence of the 'red-varigated' clone of the same species which, I believe, turned out to be a photo-shopped/modified picture of the white-varigated variety of this species. I THINK I recall someone saying that the common and BIG clone of this was a selection from the wild, and if one went back to the area where this plant occured in Coastal Mexico, one would have difficulty in finding such a large clone, most wild plants of this species were substantially smaller that the big one we see everywhere in cultivation Worldwide. Any information would be welcome! Good Growing! Julius _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l __________ NOD32 Informacje 2036 (20070204) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2007.02.05 at 22:05:46(15227) Julius, Im may be way off but seems like alot of people were confusing Rhaphidophora tetrasperma with miniature Monstera deliciosa. That plant was also called Amydrium, Philodendron, and Monstera "Ginny" as well as a form of Epipremnum pinnatum, until I believe Peter Boyce and David Scherberich concluded it was in fact a Rhaphidophora. Michael +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Peter Boyce" <botanist at malesiana.com> on 2007.02.05 at 22:15:23(15228) Dear Julius and All In the 90s while working on Rhaphidophora I investigated the so-called miniature form of M. deliciosa in cultivation in Europe (and as named in Birdsey's Cultivated Aroids as 'Dwarf Ceriman') and these plants were without exception Rhaphidophora tetrasperma from Peninsular Malaysia and southern Thailand. At the time Josef had a large one flowering in Munich and it was from here that I obtained inflorescences to confirm the generic Id. Material from this clone was later used by one of my students Tam Shey May for molecular work on the Monstereae and embedded in the Rhaphidophora clade as sister to R. nicolsonii from Pen. Malaysia while M. deliciosa (one of she outgroups) remained clustered with Stenopsermation and a Rhodospatha. Thus morphologically (ovules/seeds) and on molecular (trn-l/trn-f) the European 'Dwarf'Deliciosa'is a Rhaphidophora. Peter +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:42 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? > Dear All,> > A question--what is the status of the existence of a true 'minature' clone > of Monstera deliciosa, and what, it it does exist, are the measurements of a > MATURE leaf of this mimature?????> I THINK I remember a discussion on this back when we exchanged ideas about > the non-existence of the 'red-varigated' clone of the same species which, I > believe, turned out to be a photo-shopped/modified picture of the > white-varigated variety of this species.> I THINK I recall someone saying that the common and BIG clone of this was a > selection from the wild, and if one went back to the area where this plant > occured in Coastal Mexico, one would have difficulty in finding such a large > clone, most wild plants of this species were substantially smaller that the > big one we see everywhere in cultivation Worldwide.> Any information would be welcome!> > Good Growing!> > Julius> > > _______________________________________________> Aroid-l mailing list> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l> > _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Bluesea <chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2007.02.06 at 05:42:45(15231) I think we need to establish which Aroid Julius's original question was regarding, the Rhaphidophora, or the M. deliciosa +More 'Borsigiana'. While all the info about the Rhaph is extremely interesting and informative (and I'm taking notes), I tend to think Julius is asking about the 'Borsigiana'. Russ central Fla _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2007.02.06 at 09:56:59(15233) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Monday, February 5, 2007 9:05 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? Dear All, First off, Thanks to Marek (and others like Raymond M. who responded to the list on my querry!), for sharing this information with all of us, it was (I THINK!) what I was looking for. Tom and Pete, is this TRUE Monstera deliciosa, or something else (please check the link kindly given by Marek in his note, below)? It certainly LOOKS like a true M. deliciosa, with even the SAME fenestrations (holes) and splits in its mature leaves. Tom, does your small Honduran collection have these fenestrations?? What is the largest leaf on this Honduran collection? Thanks again to all of you for sharing your knowledge, it enriches all of us! Julius +More Hello, This "compact" Monstera deliciosa is named M.d. "Borsigiana" or sometimes M.d. var. borsigiana, but this is rather a cultivar, not a natural variety. The largest leaf I've seen was about 40 cm (1' 4") in diameter. http://www.wschowa.com/abrimaal/araceum/monstera/pertusa.htm Don't be deceived by the filename "pertusa", once I thought it was M. pertusa, and I don't change filenames in my website because some other sites have direct links to my pages. Greetings Marek Argent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 10:42 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? Dear All, A question--what is the status of the existence of a true 'minature' clone of Monstera deliciosa, and what, it it does exist, are the measurements of a MATURE leaf of this minature????? I THINK I remember a discussion on this back when we exchanged ideas about the non-existence of the 'red-varigated' clone of the same species which, I believe, turned out to be a photo-shopped/modified picture of the white-varigated variety of this species. I THINK I recall someone saying that the common and BIG clone of this was a selection from the wild, and if one went back to the area where this plant occured in Coastal Mexico, one would have difficulty in finding such a large clone, most wild plants of this species were substantially smaller that the big one we see everywhere in cultivation Worldwide. Any information would be welcome! Good Growing! Julius _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l __________ NOD32 Informacje 2036 (20070204) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l Reply-To: Discussion of aroids _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Famille FERRY" <jpcferry2 at wanadoo.fr> on 2007.02.06 at 19:53:13(15237) Dear all, I you sendings a photograph of Rhaphidophora tetrasperma which I made this morning at the botanical garden of Nancy. In 2000, I went to Munich with David Scherberich and we met Josef Bogner. He gave me a cutting of this Monstera. He said that it was a dwarf form of Monstera deliciosa. In fact, it is about Rhaphidophora tetrasperma. This plant is splendid and I think that it deserves to be marketed. Cordially, Geneviève Ferry +More Jardin botanique de Nancy France ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Boyce To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? Dear Julius and All In the 90s while working on Rhaphidophora I investigated the so-called miniature form of M. deliciosa in cultivation in Europe (and as named in Birdsey's Cultivated Aroids as 'Dwarf Ceriman') and these plants were without exception Rhaphidophora tetrasperma from Peninsular Malaysia and southern Thailand. At the time Josef had a large one flowering in Munich and it was from here that I obtained inflorescences to confirm the generic Id. Material from this clone was later used by one of my students Tam Shey May for molecular work on the Monstereae and embedded in the Rhaphidophora clade as sister to R. nicolsonii from Pen. Malaysia while M. deliciosa (one of she outgroups) remained clustered with Stenopsermation and a Rhodospatha. Thus morphologically (ovules/seeds) and on molecular (trn-l/trn-f) the European 'Dwarf'Deliciosa'is a Rhaphidophora. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:42 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? > Dear All,> > A question--what is the status of the existence of a true 'minature' clone > of Monstera deliciosa, and what, it it does exist, are the measurements of a > MATURE leaf of this mimature?????> I THINK I remember a discussion on this back when we exchanged ideas about > the non-existence of the 'red-varigated' clone of the same species which, I > believe, turned out to be a photo-shopped/modified picture of the > white-varigated variety of this species.> I THINK I recall someone saying that the common and BIG clone of this was a > selection from the wild, and if one went back to the area where this plant > occured in Coastal Mexico, one would have difficulty in finding such a large > clone, most wild plants of this species were substantially smaller that the > big one we see everywhere in cultivation Worldwide.> Any information would be welcome!> > Good Growing!> > Julius> > > _______________________________________________> Aroid-l mailing list> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l> > _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l Attachment: Rhaphidophora tetrasperma.JPG Description: JPEG image _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Hermine <hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2007.02.07 at 02:28:05(15239) At 11:53 AM 2/6/2007, Famille FERRY wrote: Dear all, I you sendings a photograph of Rhaphidophora tetrasperma which I made this morning at the botanical garden of Nancy. In 2000, I went to Munich with David Scherberich and we met Josef Bogner. He gave me a cutting of this Monstera. He said that it was a dwarf form of Monstera deliciosa. In fact, it is about Rhaphidophora tetrasperma. This plant is splendid and I think that it deserves to be marketed. Cordially, Geneviève Ferry what a wonderful guy! i have written to him and gotten back letters and "stuff" propagation material and what all, and I am NOBODY, years ago I was even LESS, and still, I got back real great paper letters. that is all I have to say except that i am plantwise decimated by our cold in Southern California. if this is global warming, the earth must be flat. hermine +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Famille FERRY" <jpcferry2 at wanadoo.fr> on 2007.02.07 at 15:12:22(15242) Yes , you are right. Josef Bogner is very, very generous. We enriched the collection by Aracées of Nancy with the gifts which he gave. +More I wish you much courage because I saw the damage caused by the cold and snow in your country. Better wishes. Geneviève ----- Original Message ----- From: Hermine To: Discussion of aroids ; Discussion of aroids Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? At 11:53 AM 2/6/2007, Famille FERRY wrote: Dear all, I you sendings a photograph of Rhaphidophora tetrasperma which I made this morning at the botanical garden of Nancy. In 2000, I went to Munich with David Scherberich and we met Josef Bogner. He gave me a cutting of this Monstera. He said that it was a dwarf form of Monstera deliciosa. In fact, it is about Rhaphidophora tetrasperma. This plant is splendid and I think that it deserves to be marketed.Cordially, Geneviève Ferry what a wonderful guy! i have written to him and gotten back letters and "stuff" propagation material and what all, and I am NOBODY, years ago I was even LESS, and still, I got back real great paper letters. that is all I have to say except that i am plantwise decimated by our cold in Southern California. if this is global warming, the earth must be flat.hermine _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "alocasia" <bs246466 at skynet.be> on 2007.02.07 at 20:08:48(15245) Yes,Josef is maybe the most generous 'plantman' that i ever meet.I will never forget my visit in +More Munich!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Famille FERRY To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? Yes , you are right. Josef Bogner is very, very generous. We enriched the collection by Aracées of Nancy with the gifts which he gave. I wish you much courage because I saw the damage caused by the cold and snow in your country. Better wishes. Geneviève ----- Original Message ----- From: Hermine To: Discussion of aroids ; Discussion of aroids Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 3:28 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] "minature" M. deliciosa?? At 11:53 AM 2/6/2007, Famille FERRY wrote: Dear all, I you sendings a photograph of Rhaphidophora tetrasperma which I made this morning at the botanical garden of Nancy. In 2000, I went to Munich with David Scherberich and we met Josef Bogner. He gave me a cutting of this Monstera. He said that it was a dwarf form of Monstera deliciosa. In fact, it is about Rhaphidophora tetrasperma. This plant is splendid and I think that it deserves to be marketed.Cordially, Geneviève Ferry what a wonderful guy! i have written to him and gotten back letters and "stuff" propagation material and what all, and I am NOBODY, years ago I was even LESS, and still, I got back real great paper letters. that is all I have to say except that i am plantwise decimated by our cold in Southern California. if this is global warming, the earth must be flat.hermine _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.28/672 - Release Date: 6/02/07 _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Eric Schmidt <leu242 at yahoo.com> on 2007.02.08 at 22:06:38(15257) Below is a link to a photo of 3 different Monstera delicosa leaves from here at Leu Gardens. There seems to be 3 forms in our collection. The first, the smaller leaf at the far left, is the var. borsigiana, the one in the middle is the large form and the one on the right is a smaller form. There is also a U.S. dollar added for scale; http://tinyurl.com/24vzqn Eric +More Leu Gardens Orlando,FL z9b/10a ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p¾STDEAL _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.