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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
Colocasia mess
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From: "Agoston Janos" agoston.janos at citromail.hu> on 2006.08.13 at 09:02:52(14507)
Dear All,
I attach the pictures of the plants whose names are "difficult
to choose the right".
Can anybody help me identify them, plese.
Bye,
J
Attachment:
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Colocasia1.jpg
Description: JPEG image
Attachment:
Colocasia2.jpg
Description: JPEG image
Attachment:
Colocasia3.jpg
Description: JPEG image
Attachment:
Colocasia4.jpg
Description: JPEG image
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From: "Tom Croat" Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2006.08.14 at 15:01:53(14511)
Pete Boyce should pronounce on these.
Could #3 be Steudnera rather than Colocasia? Number 4 is Colocasia esculenta
var. antiquorum, I think.
Tom
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From:
aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Agoston Janos
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:03
AM
To: AROID-L
Subject: [Aroid-l] Colocasia mess
Dear All,
I attach the pictures of the plants whose names are "difficult to
choose the right".
Can anybody help me identify them, plese.
Bye,
J
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Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: "Agoston Janos" agoston.janos at citromail.hu> on 2006.08.14 at 17:34:51(14512)
Thank you Tom.
If I'll have some time I'll ask him.
----- Original Message -----
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From:
Tom
Croat
To: Discussion of aroids
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:01
PM
Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Colocasia
mess
Pete Boyce should
pronounce on these. Could #3 be Steudnera rather than Colocasia?
Number 4 is Colocasia esculenta var. antiquorum, I think.
Tom
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
[mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On
Behalf Of Agoston JanosSent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:03
AMTo: AROID-LSubject: [Aroid-l] Colocasia
mess
Dear All,
I attach the pictures of the plants whose names are
"difficult to choose the right".
Can anybody help me identify them,
plese.
Bye,
J
_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing
listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: "mossytrail" mossytrail at hctc.com> on 2006.09.07 at 06:24:26(14573)
> Dear All,
>
> I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell
> my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names
> for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct!
This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature,
many species were known only from preserved or cultivated
specimens. There was no way of knowing which of these
specimens could have interbred, nor of how much variation
the offspring would show, so each different variant had a
separate name. In some cases, different specimens of a
single species were put in three or four different genera --
just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, the
California fan palm, Washintonia filifera.
> Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia
> esculenta 'Illustris'
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Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has three
subspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e.
aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as its
species name, is properly C. esculenta.
>
> Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.) fallax cf. ? syn.
> Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ?
> Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax
>
Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, but
since it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it is
suspect.
I cannot speak of your other questions.
Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large
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From: Peter Matthews pjm at gol.com> on 2006.09.08 at 02:03:15(14574)
Dear Various,
In the early 1980s I had the opportunity to look through European
herbarium collections of Colocasia species.
The most often collected and clearly distinct species were Colocasia
esculenta (very widespread in the wild and in cultivation), C. fallax
Schott (Engler & Krause 1920) (central Himalaya), C. affinis Schott
(Engler & Krause 1920) (eastern Himalaya to Thailand) and C. gigantea
Hook f. (Hotta 1970) (E and SE Asia).
All four of these species are used as ornamentals and are now quite
widepsread outside their natural or pre-modern historical range.
Other rarely collected species of Colocasia are less well-known
taxonomically, their geographical ranges cannot be ascertained from
one or just a few collection records each. These species are less
likely to be found in trade (C. gracilis, C. mannii, C. virosa, and
others that have been reported in recent years).
C. affinis a tender, cold-sensitive species with stolons (a tropical
lowland species, or lowland and low hills).
C. fallax is a tough, cold tolerant species with stolons (i.e it
seems to be atropical mountain species).
C. gigantea ranges in cultivation from tropics to warm temperate
areas, and will regrow after frost or snow damage (in Japan).
C. esculenta ranges in cultivation from tropics to cool temperate
areas, and will regrow after frost or snow damage (to 41 degrees N.in
Japan). Wild forms in the lowland tropics and subtropics are all
stoloniferous and show considerable phenotypic diversity in mainland
SE Asia - in coloration, spathe morphology etc.).
Wild forms at higher altitudes (above 1000 m) in the tropics are not
well known but do exist, and some bear cormels rather than stolons.
The historically recognised varieties (e.g.C. e. var. aquatilis and
var. antiquorum) may simply represent fragments from a continuous
range of morphological variation among wild forms in diverse habitats
over a huge geographical range in Asia and the western Pacific.
It is difficult for anyone to actually cover all the ground that
needs to be covered, to comprehend variation in very widespread
species. Give us another hundred years or so (or 100 students and
funds for 1 year).
Thanks, Peter
ref.
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P. Matthews (1991) A possible tropical widltype taro: Colocasia
esculenta var. aquatilis. Bulletin of the Indo-Pacific Prehistory
Association, 11: 69-81.
****
> Dear All,
I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell
my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names
for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct!
This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature,
many species were known only from preserved or cultivated
specimens. There was no way of knowing which of these
specimens could have interbred, nor of how much variation
the offspring would show, so each different variant had a
separate name. In some cases, different specimens of a
single species were put in three or four different genera --
just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, the
California fan palm, Washintonia filifera.
Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia
esculenta 'Illustris'
Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has three
subspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e.
aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as its
species name, is properly C. esculenta.
Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.) fallax cf. ? syn.
Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ?
Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax
Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, but
since it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it is
suspect.
I cannot speak of your other questions.
Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
--
Peter Matthews (Dr)
National Museum of Ethnology
Senri Expo Park, Suita City
Osaka 565-8511, Japan
Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only)
Tel. +81 6 6878-8344 (Peter's office)
Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum)
Websites:
The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz
A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders
****
Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com
Plant genetic resources in Eurasia
****
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From: "Agoston Janos" agoston.janos at citromail.hu> on 2006.09.08 at 06:33:08(14575)
Dear Jason,Thank you for your help. Now I know more from this nomenclature.Bye,Jani
-- Eredeti ?zenet --
Felad?: mossytrail
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C?mzett: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
M?solat:
Elk?ldve: 03:23
T?ma: [Aroid-l] Re: Colocasia mess> Dear All,> > I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell> my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names> for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct!This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature,many species were known only from preserved or cultivatedspecimens. There was no way of knowing which of thesespecimens could have interbred, nor of how much variationthe offspring would show, so each different variant had aseparate name. In some cases, different specimens of asingle species were put in three or four different genera --just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, theCalifornia fan palm, Washintonia filifera.> Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia> esculenta 'Illustris'Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has threesubspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e.aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as itsspecies name, is properly C. esculenta.> > Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.)
fallax cf. ? syn.> Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ?> Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax>Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, butsince it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it issuspect.I cannot speak of your other questions.Jason HernandezNaturalist-at-Large_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.09.08 at 09:09:08(14576)
Colocasia fallax is a good species
----- Original Message -----
To:
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Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Re: Colocasia mess
Dear All,
I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell
my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names
for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct!
This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature,
many species were known only from preserved or cultivated
specimens. There was no way of knowing which of these
specimens could have interbred, nor of how much variation
the offspring would show, so each different variant had a
separate name. In some cases, different specimens of a
single species were put in three or four different genera --
just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, the
California fan palm, Washintonia filifera.
Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia
esculenta 'Illustris'
Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has three
subspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e.
aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as its
species name, is properly C. esculenta.
Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.) fallax cf. ? syn.
Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ?
Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax
Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, but
since it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it is
suspect.
I cannot speak of your other questions.
Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
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