Intrageneric crossing - a good reference

From: Peter Matthews pjm at gol.com> on 2006.01.23 at 01:13:29(13766) Title: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference H. Yoshino, T. Ochiai and M. Tahara (2000) Phylogenetic +More relationship between Colocasia and Alocasia based on molecular techniques. In: D. Zhu, P. B. Ezyaguirre, M. Zhou, L. Sears and G. Liu (eds) Ethnobotany and genetic diversity of Asian taro: focus on China. International Plant Genetic Resources Institute and Chinese Society for Horticultural Science, Beijing. pp. 66-73. Summary: A taro strain collected in Nepal in 1973 was considered to be an intergeneric hybrid between Alocasia and Colocasia, on the basis of chloroplast DNA analyses carried out in the 1980s (but see later work with isozymes, noted below). Subsequently, an artificial cross was attempted and numerous seeds were obtained after a cross between C. esculenta var. aquatilis (Hassk.) Kitamura (from Nepal) and Alocasia brisbanensis (F. M. Bailey) Domin (ex Kyoto Botanical Garden). Most seeds did not germinate and only a single plant developed fully. This plant was triploid and chromosome painting using genomic in situ hybridisation (GISH) showed that 14 of 42 chromosomes were derived from A. brisbanensis. It was concluded that the plant was an intergeneric hybrid, formed as an unreduced egg of C. esculenta fertilised with normal A. brisbanensis pollen. Isozyme analyses by V. X. Nguyen (1998), PhD, Okayama University, contradicted the original interpretation of the Nepalese hybrid, indicating that it was a cross between C. esculenta and C. gigantea (i.e. intra-generic, not inter-generic). ***** Comments by PJM: Among other Asian accessions (Nepal and China) Nguyen found further examples of hybridsation between C. esculenta and C. gigantea. Taxonomically, C. gigantea is possibly misplaced in Colocasia, but it is not necessarily to be regarded as closer to Alocasia. As Yoshino points out, and as Tony Avent indicates in this list, there is much to be learned about hyribidisation among these aroids. The experimental survival of a hybrid between genera was made possible by a rare polyploidisation event that allowed odd chromosomes to be carried along by a normal full complement of chromosomes. Vigorous offspring are less likely after intergeneric crosses than after interspecies (intrageneric) crosses. An intergeneric crossing has not yet been proven to occur in the wild, though it is possible in principle. PJM ***** Dear Pete and Marek: The Alocasia x Colocasia hybrid that you mentioned looks a lot like A. macrorhizos. I was fortunate to examine this hybrid several years ago growing at a Hawaii taro research station. It was found in an area of Nepal where the two genera grow together. On our expedition last year to N. Vietnam, we visited a restricted military area near the China border. We found Colocasia gigantea growing with Alocasia macrorhizos. Growing among them were several plants that superficially appeared to be bi-generic hybrids. We have not had these plants tested yet to confirm this yet, so this is just a preliminary observation. If anyone is doing work in that region, I will be glad to direct them to the population for further study. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- Peter Matthews (Dr) National Museum of Ethnology Senri Expo Park, Suita City Osaka 565-8511, Japan Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only) Tel. +81 6 6878-8357 (Peter's office) Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum) Websites: The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders **** Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com Plant genetic resources in Eurasia **** _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2006.01.24 at 04:23:48(13773) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Monday, January 23, 2006 1:13 AM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference Dear Peter, Thanks---to put this in a nutshell, it is suspected and confirmed by the 1988 testing that the ORIGINAL collected plant was a hybrid between two COLOCASIA species, C. esculenta X C. gigantia, not between a Colocasia X Alocasia. AND--a cross between Alocasia brsibanensis X Colocasia esculenta was made by man, ONE seed developed into ONE plant. This confirms that a cross is remotely possible between these two seemingly closely related genera, in which the dividing lines between these two genera are still vague, and that it is easier for two different species within the SAME genus can and will cross. Julius +More reference H. Yoshino, T. Ochiai and M. Tahara (2000) Phylogenetic relationship between Colocasia and Alocasia based on molecular techniques. In: D. Zhu, P. B. Ezyaguirre, M. Zhou, L. Sears and G. Liu (eds) Ethnobotany and genetic diversity of Asian taro: focus on China. International Plant Genetic Resources Institute and Chinese Society for Horticultural Science, Beijing. pp. 66-73. Summary: A taro strain collected in Nepal in 1973 was considered to be an intergeneric hybrid between Alocasia and Colocasia, on the basis of chloroplast DNA analyses carried out in the 1980s (but see later work with isozymes, noted below). Subsequently, an artificial cross was attempted and numerous seeds were obtained after a cross between C. esculenta var. aquatilis (Hassk.) Kitamura (from Nepal) and Alocasia brisbanensis (F. M. Bailey) Domin (ex Kyoto Botanical Garden). Most seeds did not germinate and only a single plant developed fully. This plant was triploid and chromosome painting using genomic in situ hybridisation (GISH) showed that 14 of 42 chromosomes were derived from A. brisbanensis. It was concluded that the plant was an intergeneric hybrid, formed as an unreduced egg of C. esculenta fertilised with normal A. brisbanensis pollen. Isozyme analyses by V. X. Nguyen (1998), PhD, Okayama University, contradicted the original interpretation of the Nepalese hybrid, indicating that it was a cross between C. esculenta and C. gigantea (i.e. intra-generic, not inter-generic). ***** Comments by PJM: Among other Asian accessions (Nepal and China) Nguyen found further examples of hybridsation between C. esculenta and C. gigantea. Taxonomically, C. gigantea is possibly misplaced in Colocasia, but it is not necessarily to be regarded as closer to Alocasia. As Yoshino points out, and as Tony Avent indicates in this list, there is much to be learned about hyribidisation among these aroids. The experimental survival of a hybrid between genera was made possible by a rare polyploidisation event that allowed odd chromosomes to be carried along by a normal full complement of chromosomes. Vigorous offspring are less likely after intergeneric crosses than after interspecies (intrageneric) crosses. An intergeneric crossing has not yet been proven to occur in the wild, though it is possible in principle. PJM ***** Dear Pete and Marek: The Alocasia x Colocasia hybrid that you mentioned looks a lot like A. macrorhizos. I was fortunate to examine this hybrid several years ago growing at a Hawaii taro research station. It was found in an area of Nepal where the two genera grow together. On our expedition last year to N. Vietnam, we visited a restricted military area near the China border. We found Colocasia gigantea growing with Alocasia macrorhizos. Growing among them were several plants that superficially appeared to be bi-generic hybrids. We have not had these plants tested yet to confirm this yet, so this is just a preliminary observation. If anyone is doing work in that region, I will be glad to direct them to the population for further study. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- Peter Matthews (Dr) National Museum of Ethnology Senri Expo Park, Suita City Osaka 565-8511, Japan Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only) Tel. +81 6 6878-8357 (Peter's office) Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum) Websites: The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders **** Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com Plant genetic resources in Eurasia **** _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdelights.com> on 2006.01.24 at 12:16:40(13774) Peter: Your note is quite interesting about the possible mis-classification of Colocasia gigantea. I have always found it unusual that C. gigantea seems to have more phenotypic characteristics of alocasia than colocasia...very interesting. Sounds like a research paper is needed. Tony Avent +More Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent Peter Matthews wrote: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference H. Yoshino, T. Ochiai and M. Tahara (2000) Phylogenetic relationship between Colocasia and Alocasia based on molecular techniques. In: D. Zhu, P. B. Ezyaguirre, M. Zhou, L. Sears and G. Liu (eds) Ethnobotany and genetic diversity of Asian taro: focus on China. International Plant Genetic Resources Institute and Chinese Society for Horticultural Science, Beijing. pp. 66-73. Summary: A taro strain collected in Nepal in 1973 was considered to be an intergeneric hybrid between Alocasia and Colocasia, on the basis of chloroplast DNA analyses carried out in the 1980s (but see later work with isozymes, noted below). Subsequently, an artificial cross was attempted and numerous seeds were obtained after a cross between C. esculenta var. aquatilis (Hassk.) Kitamura (from Nepal) and Alocasia brisbanensis (F. M. Bailey) Domin (ex Kyoto Botanical Garden). Most seeds did not germinate and only a single plant developed fully. This plant was triploid and chromosome painting using genomic in situ hybridisation (GISH) showed that 14 of 42 chromosomes were derived from A. brisbanensis. It was concluded that the plant was an intergeneric hybrid, formed as an unreduced egg of C. esculenta fertilised with normal A. brisbanensis pollen. Isozyme analyses by V. X. Nguyen (1998), PhD, Okayama University, contradicted the original interpretation of the Nepalese hybrid, indicating that it was a cross between C. esculenta and C. gigantea (i.e. intra-generic, not inter-generic). ***** Comments by PJM: Among other Asian accessions (Nepal and China) Nguyen found further examples of hybridsation between C. esculenta and C. gigantea. Taxonomically, C. gigantea is possibly misplaced in Colocasia, but it is not necessarily to be regarded as closer to Alocasia. As Yoshino points out, and as Tony Avent indicates in this list, there is much to be learned about hyribidisation among these aroids. The experimental survival of a hybrid between genera was made possible by a rare polyploidisation event that allowed odd chromosomes to be carried along by a normal full complement of chromosomes. Vigorous offspring are less likely after intergeneric crosses than after interspecies (intrageneric) crosses. An intergeneric crossing has not yet been proven to occur in the wild, though it is possible in principle. PJM ***** Dear Pete and Marek: The Alocasia x Colocasia hybrid that you mentioned looks a lot like A. macrorhizos. I was fortunate to examine this hybrid several years ago growing at a Hawaii taro research station. It was found in an area of Nepal where the two genera grow together. On our expedition last year to N. Vietnam, we visited a restricted military area near the China border. We found Colocasia gigantea growing with Alocasia macrorhizos. Growing among them were several plants that superficially appeared to be bi-generic hybrids. We have not had these plants tested yet to confirm this yet, so this is just a preliminary observation. If anyone is doing work in that region, I will be glad to direct them to the population for further study. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- Peter Matthews (Dr) National Museum of Ethnology Senri Expo Park, Suita City Osaka 565-8511, Japan Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only) Tel. +81 6 6878-8357 (Peter's office) Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum) Websites: The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders **** Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com Plant genetic resources in Eurasia **** _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Abrimaal" abrimaal at wp.pl> on 2006.01.28 at 15:22:43(13778) Maybe someday Colocasia and Alocasia will become one genus... the difference is only in number of ovules in a female flower (I don't know what about cytology). Marek +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Avent To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference Peter:Your note is quite interesting about the possible mis-classification of Colocasia gigantea. I have always found it unusual that C. gigantea seems to have more phenotypic characteristics of alocasia than colocasia...very interesting. Sounds like a research paper is needed.Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - AventPeter Matthews wrote: H. Yoshino, T. Ochiai and M. Tahara (2000) Phylogenetic relationship between Colocasia and Alocasia based on molecular techniques. In: D. Zhu, P. B. Ezyaguirre, M. Zhou, L. Sears and G. Liu (eds) Ethnobotany and genetic diversity of Asian taro: focus on China. International Plant Genetic Resources Institute and Chinese Society for Horticultural Science, Beijing. pp. 66-73. Summary: A taro strain collected in Nepal in 1973 was considered to be an intergeneric hybrid between Alocasia and Colocasia, on the basis of chloroplast DNA analyses carried out in the 1980s (but see later work with isozymes, noted below). Subsequently, an artificial cross was attempted and numerous seeds were obtained after a cross between C. esculenta var. aquatilis (Hassk.) Kitamura (from Nepal) and Alocasia brisbanensis (F. M. Bailey) Domin (ex Kyoto Botanical Garden). Most seeds did not germinate and only a single plant developed fully. This plant was triploid and chromosome painting using genomic in situ hybridisation (GISH) showed that 14 of 42 chromosomes were derived from A. brisbanensis. It was concluded that the plant was an intergeneric hybrid, formed as an unreduced egg of C. esculenta fertilised with normal A. brisbanensis pollen. Isozyme analyses by V. X. Nguyen (1998), PhD, Okayama University, contradicted the original interpretation of the Nepalese hybrid, indicating that it was a cross between C. esculenta and C. gigantea (i.e. intra-generic, not inter-generic). ***** Comments by PJM: Among other Asian accessions (Nepal and China) Nguyen found further examples of hybridsation between C. esculenta and C. gigantea. Taxonomically, C. gigantea is possibly misplaced in Colocasia, but it is not necessarily to be regarded as closer to Alocasia. As Yoshino points out, and as Tony Avent indicates in this list, there is much to be learned about hyribidisation among these aroids. The experimental survival of a hybrid between genera was made possible by a rare polyploidisation event that allowed odd chromosomes to be carried along by a normal full complement of chromosomes. Vigorous offspring are less likely after intergeneric crosses than after interspecies (intrageneric) crosses. An intergeneric crossing has not yet been proven to occur in the wild, though it is possible in principle. PJM ***** Dear Pete and Marek:The Alocasia x Colocasia hybrid that you mentioned looks a lot like A. macrorhizos. I was fortunate to examine this hybrid several years ago growing at a Hawaii taro research station. It was found in an area of Nepal where the two genera grow together. On our expedition last year to N. Vietnam, we visited a restricted military area near the China border. We found Colocasia gigantea growing with Alocasia macrorhizos. Growing among them were several plants that superficially appeared to be bi-generic hybrids. We have not had these plants tested yet to confirm this yet, so this is just a preliminary observation. If anyone is doing work in that region, I will be glad to direct them to the population for further study.Tony AventPlant Delights Nursery @Juniper Level Botanic Garden9241 Sauls RoadRaleigh, North Carolina 27603 USAMinimum Winter Temps 0-5 FMaximum Summer Temps 95-105FUSDA Hardiness Zone 7bemail tony@plantdelights.comwebsite http://www.plantdelights.comphone 919 772-4794fax 919 772-4752"I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- Peter Matthews (Dr)National Museum of EthnologySenri Expo Park, Suita CityOsaka 565-8511, Japan Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only) Tel. +81 6 6878-8357 (Peter's office) Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum) Websites: The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders **** Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com Plant genetic resources in Eurasia **** _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Alistair Hay" ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2006.01.28 at 21:45:34(13781) Colocasia geography, synflorescence architecture, fruit, seeds and dispersal syndrome are different from Alocasia too...... Colocasia much closer to Remusatia etc than to Alocasia. Colocasia gigantea is clearly a Colocasia! Alistair +More Maybe someday Colocasia and Alocasia will become one genus... the difference is only in number of ovules in a female flower (I don't know what about cytology). Marek ----- Original Message ----- To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference Peter:Your note is quite interesting about the possible mis-classification of Colocasia gigantea. I have always found it unusual that C. gigantea seems to have more phenotypic characteristics of alocasia than colocasia...very interesting. Sounds like a research paper is needed.Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - AventPeter Matthews wrote: H. Yoshino, T. Ochiai and M. Tahara (2000) Phylogenetic relationship between Colocasia and Alocasia based on molecular techniques. In: D. Zhu, P. B. Ezyaguirre, M. Zhou, L. Sears and G. Liu (eds) Ethnobotany and genetic diversity of Asian taro: focus on China. International Plant Genetic Resources Institute and Chinese Society for Horticultural Science, Beijing. pp. 66-73. Summary: A taro strain collected in Nepal in 1973 was considered to be an intergeneric hybrid between Alocasia and Colocasia, on the basis of chloroplast DNA analyses carried out in the 1980s (but see later work with isozymes, noted below). Subsequently, an artificial cross was attempted and numerous seeds were obtained after a cross between C. esculenta var. aquatilis (Hassk.) Kitamura (from Nepal) and Alocasia brisbanensis (F. M. Bailey) Domin (ex Kyoto Botanical Garden). Most seeds did not germinate and only a single plant developed fully. This plant was triploid and chromosome painting using genomic in situ hybridisation (GISH) showed that 14 of 42 chromosomes were derived from A. brisbanensis. It was concluded that the plant was an intergeneric hybrid, formed as an unreduced egg of C. esculenta fertilised with normal A. brisbanensis pollen. Isozyme analyses by V. X. Nguyen (1998), PhD, Okayama University, contradicted the original interpretation of the Nepalese hybrid, indicating that it was a cross between C. esculenta and C. gigantea (i.e. intra-generic, not inter-generic). ***** Comments by PJM: Among other Asian accessions (Nepal and China) Nguyen found further examples of hybridsation between C. esculenta and C. gigantea. Taxonomically, C. gigantea is possibly misplaced in Colocasia, but it is not necessarily to be regarded as closer to Alocasia. As Yoshino points out, and as Tony Avent indicates in this list, there is much to be learned about hyribidisation among these aroids. The experimental survival of a hybrid between genera was made possible by a rare polyploidisation event that allowed odd chromosomes to be carried along by a normal full complement of chromosomes. Vigorous offspring are less likely after intergeneric crosses than after interspecies (intrageneric) crosses. An intergeneric crossing has not yet been proven to occur in the wild, though it is possible in principle. PJM ***** Dear Pete and Marek:The Alocasia x Colocasia hybrid that you mentioned looks a lot like A. macrorhizos. I was fortunate to examine this hybrid several years ago growing at a Hawaii taro research station. It was found in an area of Nepal where the two genera grow together. On our expedition last year to N. Vietnam, we visited a restricted military area near the China border. We found Colocasia gigantea growing with Alocasia macrorhizos. Growing among them were several plants that superficially appeared to be bi-generic hybrids. We have not had these plants tested yet to confirm this yet, so this is just a preliminary observation. If anyone is doing work in that region, I will be glad to direct them to the population for further study.Tony AventPlant Delights Nursery @Juniper Level Botanic Garden9241 Sauls RoadRaleigh, North Carolina 27603 USAMinimum Winter Temps 0-5 FMaximum Summer Temps 95-105FUSDA Hardiness Zone 7bemail tony@plantdelights.comwebsite http://www.plantdelights.comphone 919 772-4794fax 919 772-4752"I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- Peter Matthews (Dr)National Museum of EthnologySenri Expo Park, Suita CityOsaka 565-8511, Japan Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only) Tel. +81 6 6878-8357 (Peter's office) Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum) Websites: The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders **** Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com Plant genetic resources in Eurasia **** _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l >_______________________________________________>Aroid-l mailing list>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.01.28 at 22:39:56(13782) Hi Marek There's a lot more to it than just ovule number. They have very different inforescence shoot morphology and infructescence/fruit/seed structure, the latter linked to diffent dispersal mechanisms. Before we all get too excited about intergeneric hybrids 'proving' that two genera should be moerged it's wort recalling the number of intergeneric hybrids in the orchids, especially the vandoid orchids, where I beleive up to seven genera (maybe more - I'm a tad out of date) have been used to make a commercial hybrid including crosses involving Phalaenopsis and Vanda. Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Abrimaal To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference Maybe someday Colocasia and Alocasia will become one genus... the difference is only in number of ovules in a female flower (I don't know what about cytology). Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Avent To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference Peter:Your note is quite interesting about the possible mis-classification of Colocasia gigantea. I have always found it unusual that C. gigantea seems to have more phenotypic characteristics of alocasia than colocasia...very interesting. Sounds like a research paper is needed.Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - AventPeter Matthews wrote: H. Yoshino, T. Ochiai and M. Tahara (2000) Phylogenetic relationship between Colocasia and Alocasia based on molecular techniques. In: D. Zhu, P. B. Ezyaguirre, M. Zhou, L. Sears and G. Liu (eds) Ethnobotany and genetic diversity of Asian taro: focus on China. International Plant Genetic Resources Institute and Chinese Society for Horticultural Science, Beijing. pp. 66-73. Summary: A taro strain collected in Nepal in 1973 was considered to be an intergeneric hybrid between Alocasia and Colocasia, on the basis of chloroplast DNA analyses carried out in the 1980s (but see later work with isozymes, noted below). Subsequently, an artificial cross was attempted and numerous seeds were obtained after a cross between C. esculenta var. aquatilis (Hassk.) Kitamura (from Nepal) and Alocasia brisbanensis (F. M. Bailey) Domin (ex Kyoto Botanical Garden). Most seeds did not germinate and only a single plant developed fully. This plant was triploid and chromosome painting using genomic in situ hybridisation (GISH) showed that 14 of 42 chromosomes were derived from A. brisbanensis. It was concluded that the plant was an intergeneric hybrid, formed as an unreduced egg of C. esculenta fertilised with normal A. brisbanensis pollen. Isozyme analyses by V. X. Nguyen (1998), PhD, Okayama University, contradicted the original interpretation of the Nepalese hybrid, indicating that it was a cross between C. esculenta and C. gigantea (i.e. intra-generic, not inter-generic). ***** Comments by PJM: Among other Asian accessions (Nepal and China) Nguyen found further examples of hybridsation between C. esculenta and C. gigantea. Taxonomically, C. gigantea is possibly misplaced in Colocasia, but it is not necessarily to be regarded as closer to Alocasia. As Yoshino points out, and as Tony Avent indicates in this list, there is much to be learned about hyribidisation among these aroids. The experimental survival of a hybrid between genera was made possible by a rare polyploidisation event that allowed odd chromosomes to be carried along by a normal full complement of chromosomes. Vigorous offspring are less likely after intergeneric crosses than after interspecies (intrageneric) crosses. An intergeneric crossing has not yet been proven to occur in the wild, though it is possible in principle. PJM ***** Dear Pete and Marek:The Alocasia x Colocasia hybrid that you mentioned looks a lot like A. macrorhizos. I was fortunate to examine this hybrid several years ago growing at a Hawaii taro research station. It was found in an area of Nepal where the two genera grow together. On our expedition last year to N. Vietnam, we visited a restricted military area near the China border. We found Colocasia gigantea growing with Alocasia macrorhizos. Growing among them were several plants that superficially appeared to be bi-generic hybrids. We have not had these plants tested yet to confirm this yet, so this is just a preliminary observation. If anyone is doing work in that region, I will be glad to direct them to the population for further study.Tony AventPlant Delights Nursery @Juniper Level Botanic Garden9241 Sauls RoadRaleigh, North Carolina 27603 USAMinimum Winter Temps 0-5 FMaximum Summer Temps 95-105FUSDA Hardiness Zone 7bemail tony@plantdelights.comwebsite http://www.plantdelights.comphone 919 772-4794fax 919 772-4752"I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- Peter Matthews (Dr)National Museum of EthnologySenri Expo Park, Suita CityOsaka 565-8511, Japan Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only) Tel. +81 6 6878-8357 (Peter's office) Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum) Websites: The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders **** Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com Plant genetic resources in Eurasia **** _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2006.01.29 at 23:24:02(13783) Good point Peter, this can also been seen in a few palms including Syragus, Butia and Jubaea. Michael _______________________________________________ +More Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2006.01.30 at 02:02:31(13785) Before we all get too excited about intergeneric hybrids 'proving' that two genera should be merged it's wort recalling the number of intergeneric hybrids in the orchids, especially the vandoid orchids, where I believe up to seven genera (maybe more - I'm a tad out of date) have been used to make a commercial hybrid including crosses involving Phalaenopsis and Vanda. Pete and the NAMES you have to make up for them! you might know this already and not even care...but the position among the Liliaceae of Sansevieria is still being debated hotly by the 12 people who care. I am slightly terrified of orchid breeders. hermine +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.01.30 at 08:01:24(13787) Hermine Just to make you even MORE scared, most people don't even put Sanseveria in the Liliaceae any more... What frustrates me about all the efforts expended on family shuffling & debating is that, e.g., c. 65% of the aroids of Borneo have yet to receive even ONE name! Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" ; "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference Before we all get too excited about intergeneric hybrids 'proving' that two genera should be merged it's wort recalling the number of intergeneric hybrids in the orchids, especially the vandoid orchids, where I believe up to seven genera (maybe more - I'm a tad out of date) have been used to make a commercial hybrid including crosses involving Phalaenopsis and Vanda. Pete and the NAMES you have to make up for them! you might know this already and not even care...but the position among the Liliaceae of Sansevieria is still being debated hotly by the 12 people who care. I am slightly terrified of orchid breeders. hermine _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.01.30 at 08:04:38(13788) aduh! as they say here in Malaysia ----- Original Message ----- From: +More RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference Good point Peter, this can also been seen in a few palms including Syragus, Butia and Jubaea.Michael _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2006.01.30 at 08:55:45(13790) At 12:01 AM 1/30/2006, Peter Boyce wrote: Hermine +More Just to make you even MORE scared, most people don't even put Sanseveria in the Liliaceae any more... THIS IS HERESY. I do not even want to HEAR about this. What frustrates me about all the efforts expended on family shuffling & debating is that, e.g., c. 65% of the aroids of Borneo have yet to receive even ONE name! well, it just goes to show that agreement is getting rare! 2/3rds of the names for Palms commonly grown in gardens, have changed entirely since a book listing them, published in 1947. A person almost asks, what is the POINT? One of the other things I ponder is why is Clivia listed as a bulb? hermine _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: don7T1 at webtv.net on 2006.01.30 at 15:22:36(13791) If it works for us folks & orchids --then why not aroids?? _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list +More Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: bonaventure at optonline.net on 2006.02.02 at 19:12:36(13798) Perhaps the way of the future in aroids: Cell Res. 2005 Sep;15(9):734-8. Related Articles, Links A novel in vitro system for gamete fusion in maize. Peng XB, Sun MX, Yang HY. Key Laboratory of Ministry of Education for Plant Developmental Biology, College of Life Sciences, Wuhan University, China. Various systems by using electric pulse, calcium, or polyethylene glycol have been developed in the past decade for the in vitro fusion of plant gametes. These in vitro systems provide a new way to study the fertilization mechanisms of plants. In this study, we developed a bovine serum albumin (BSA)-mediated fusion system for the in vitro fusion of maize gametes. The in vitro fusion of the isolated single egg cell and sperm cell of maize was observed microscopically in the BSA solution and the fertilized egg cell showed normal cell wall regeneration and nuclear division. The effects of the BSA concentration, pH value and calcium level on the efficiency of the maize gamete fusion were also assessed. BSA concentration and pH value did significantly affect the efficiency of the gamete fusion. Calcium was not necessary for the gamete fusion when BSA was present. The optimal solution for the gamete fusion contained 0.1% BSA, pH 6.0. The fusion frequency was as high as 96.7% in th at optimal solution. This new in vitro fertilization system offers an alternative tool for the in vitro study of fertilization mechanisms with much simpler manipulating procedure than PEG system, and it will be especially useful for the in vitro study of the calcium dynamics during plant fertilization. PMID: 16212880 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Bonaventure Magrys +More Try looking up also embryo and ovule rescue, JM Van Tuyl ----- Original Message ----- Date: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:22 am Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference > If it works for us folks & orchids --then why not aroids?? > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2006.02.02 at 19:54:27(13799) At 01:03 PM 2/2/2006, Eric Schmidt wrote: Sansevieria has recently been placed into Ruscaceae. Eric Orlando,FL what villain did this? hermine +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.02.02 at 20:54:03(13801) Hi Hermine At the risk of boring a large percentage of aroid-l subscribers, since this isn't a forum to discuss evolutionary systematics (phylogenetics), I'm all in favour of making systematic studies to better understand plant relationships based on their evolutionary lineages and strongly advocate this type of study rather then the former method of 'it looks similar thus it must be related' approach to sysematics; what worries me is the number of students veering directly to the lab. to do their work while, conservatively, a third of all living things have yet to receive a scientific name. Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" ; "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing - a good reference At 12:01 AM 1/30/2006, Peter Boyce wrote: Hermine Just to make you even MORE scared, most people don't even put Sanseveria in the Liliaceae any more... THIS IS HERESY. I do not even want to HEAR about this. What frustrates me about all the efforts expended on family shuffling & debating is that, e.g., c. 65% of the aroids of Borneo have yet to receive even ONE name! well, it just goes to show that agreement is getting rare! 2/3rds of the names for Palms commonly grown in gardens, have changed entirely since a book listing them, published in 1947. A person almost asks, what is the POINT? One of the other things I ponder is why is Clivia listed as a bulb? hermine _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Eric Schmidt leu242 at yahoo.com> on 2006.02.02 at 21:03:38(13802) Sansevieria has recently been placed into Ruscaceae. Eric +More Orlando,FL --- hermine wrote: > At 12:01 AM 1/30/2006, Peter Boyce wrote: > >Hermine > > > >Just to make you even MORE scared, most people > don't even put > >Sanseveria in the Liliaceae any more... > > > THIS IS HERESY. I do not even want to HEAR about > this. > > > >What frustrates me about all the efforts expended > on family > >shuffling & debating is that, e.g., c. 65% of the > aroids of Borneo > >have yet to receive even ONE name! > > well, it just goes to show that agreement is getting > rare! > 2/3rds of the names for Palms commonly grown in > gardens, have changed > entirely since a book listing them, published in > 1947. > A person almost asks, what is the POINT? > > One of the other things I ponder is why is Clivia > listed as a bulb? > > hermine > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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