Supergenic naming.

From: "Derek Burch" derek at horticulturist.com> on 2006.01.21 at 21:39:26(13754) When I worked at Bob Wilson's Fantastic Gardens in Miami in the late 50s-early 60s, Graff used to come in to photograph new stuff. When he had the pictures, he would ask Bob for names, and he would always oblige even though no one in Florida had any idea exactly what the new stuff coming in was... Since then I have been very skeptical of any name that is authenticated with a reference to "Exotica" since we all know that Graff did essentially no editing beyond lining his pictures up on the page. I don't know whose fertile brain Homalomena miamensis came from - but nurseries have to call their plants something, don't they! Derek +More -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Eugene Hoh Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:53 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing? hi everyone, Surely these are frangipani, Plumeria rubra (Apocynaceae)! The 'giveaways' are what look like petiole scars on the stem in the middle picture, the venation of the green leaf in the lower one, and the overall disposition of the foliage (hm... very scientific!). Though I haven't seen these variegated ones before. Growing up in Sydney, the appearance of Plumeria has been "imprinted" on me - they were planted in practically every garden in the older parts of town. As a kid, you quickly learn to recognise the climbable-looking little trees whose branches, evilly, snap off and send you crashing to the ground... Speaking of intergeneric crosses... I'm reminded of "x Homalocasia", the supposed hybrids between Homalomena and Alocasia, which I gather were debunked as a hoax? As well as "x Homalocasia miamiensis" (actually Homalomena lindenii, as mentioned in Exotica), there seem to have been "others". One I saw in York Meredith's collection back in the 1980s had somewhat sagittate leaves, variegated a bit like Homalomena wallisii. (I've not seen it since, but some Schismatoglottis look suspicously similar...) Does anyone remember these, or know what the story was? cheers Eugene Eugene Hoh Sydney, Australia --- Peter Boyce wrote: > Folks > > I'm inclined to agree with Wilbert about the top and > bottom image; certainly > the leaf emergence of the top image and the venation > on the bottom look > 'wrong'. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the bottom > image reminds me > strongly of a member of the Rosaceae, Photinia x > fraseri. > > The middle image I'm not so sure about - to my eyes > there are two 'aroidish' > inflorescence/infructescences in the middle of the > leafy crown. I've tried > enlarging the image but he quality is too poor to > reveal anything definite. > > Aglaonema and Dieffenbachia are a fair distance > apart in terms of > relationship. Curiously, if someone posted a claim > of a Aglaonmea x Anubias > or Aglaonmema x Nephthytis hybrid (or indeed > Dieffencachia x Gorgonium! > (sorry Eduardo!) I'd be a lot less sceptical. > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Abrimaal > To: Discussion of aroids > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:08 AM > Subject: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing? > > > The Aglaonema group is discussing now if > Dieffenbachia can be crossed with > Aglaonema... I know that they belong to deiierent > tribes and have different > pollination biology, however the Group says to me > that the Japanese crossed > Alocasia x Colocasia (the same tribe). Does anybody > know anything about this > Alo-Colocasia hybrid? > > Marek Argent > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search http://au.local.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org on 2006.01.21 at 23:03:23(13758) Title: RE: [Aroid-l] Supergenic naming. Derek: +More I do know that in one of his last books he asked Josef Bogner to check names and Boger showed this to both Simon Mayo and I so there was some improvement in the names. The real value of the older version of Exotica 3, which is so widely read, is that it allows us to communicate about plant even if the name is unknown. In some cases it really does not matter if we know the real name. I often hear about such and such a species as on P. such and such in Exotica 3. Tom -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:39 PM To: 'Discussion of aroids' Subject: [Aroid-l] Supergenic naming. When I worked at Bob Wilson's Fantastic Gardens in Miami in the late 50s-early 60s, Graff used to come in to photograph new stuff. When he had the pictures, he would ask Bob for names, and he would always oblige even though no one in Florida had any idea exactly what the new stuff coming in was... Since then I have been very skeptical of any name that is authenticated with a reference to "Exotica" since we all know that Graff did essentially no editing beyond lining his pictures up on the page. I don't know whose fertile brain Homalomena miamensis came from - but nurseries have to call their plants something, don't they! Derek -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Eugene Hoh Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:53 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing? hi everyone, Surely these are frangipani, Plumeria rubra (Apocynaceae)! The 'giveaways' are what look like petiole scars on the stem in the middle picture, the venation of the green leaf in the lower one, and the overall disposition of the foliage (hm... very scientific!). Though I haven't seen these variegated ones before. Growing up in Sydney, the appearance of Plumeria has been "imprinted" on me - they were planted in practically every garden in the older parts of town. As a kid, you quickly learn to recognise the climbable-looking little trees whose branches, evilly, snap off and send you crashing to the ground... Speaking of intergeneric crosses... I'm reminded of "x Homalocasia", the supposed hybrids between Homalomena and Alocasia, which I gather were debunked as a hoax? As well as "x Homalocasia miamiensis" (actually Homalomena lindenii, as mentioned in Exotica), there seem to have been "others". One I saw in York Meredith's collection back in the 1980s had somewhat sagittate leaves, variegated a bit like Homalomena wallisii. (I've not seen it since, but some Schismatoglottis look suspicously similar...) Does anyone remember these, or know what the story was? cheers Eugene Eugene Hoh Sydney, Australia --- Peter Boyce wrote: > Folks > > I'm inclined to agree with Wilbert about the top and > bottom image; certainly > the leaf emergence of the top image and the venation > on the bottom look > 'wrong'. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the bottom > image reminds me > strongly of a member of the Rosaceae, Photinia x > fraseri. > > The middle image I'm not so sure about - to my eyes > there are two 'aroidish' > inflorescence/infructescences in the middle of the > leafy crown. I've tried > enlarging the image but he quality is too poor to > reveal anything definite. > > Aglaonema and Dieffenbachia are a fair distance > apart in terms of > relationship. Curiously, if someone posted a claim > of a Aglaonmea x Anubias > or Aglaonmema x Nephthytis hybrid (or indeed > Dieffencachia x Gorgonium! > (sorry Eduardo!) I'd be a lot less sceptical. > > Pete > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Abrimaal > To: Discussion of aroids > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:08 AM > Subject: [Aroid-l] Intrageneric crossing? > > > The Aglaonema group is discussing now if > Dieffenbachia can be crossed with > Aglaonema... I know that they belong to deiierent > tribes and have different > pollination biology, however the Group says to me > that the Japanese crossed > Alocasia x Colocasia (the same tribe). Does anybody > know anything about this > Alo-Colocasia hybrid? > > Marek Argent > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search http://au.local.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2006.01.21 at 23:20:50(13759) I do know that in one of his last books he asked Josef Bogner to check names and Boger showed this to both Simon Mayo and I so there was some improvement in the names. The real value of the older version of Exotica 3, which is so widely read, is that it allows us to communicate about plant even if the name is unknown. In some cases it really does not matter if we know the real name. I often hear about such and such a species as on P. such and such in Exotica 3. Tom He once came to our place and photographed some stuff, perhaps it was bamboo, and at that time the names were uncertain; today they are still a subject of polite argument. But he wrote down the names we had, as the best names at the time. EXOTICA was my introduction to rare plants, i lived at the library until i had almost MEMORIZED it. I know the Sansevieria names are all messed up, but it was an amazement to see that there were the uncommon ones photographed and published ANYWHERE in those dark, unenlightened times! hermine +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Derek Burch" derek at horticulturist.com> on 2006.01.22 at 02:11:33(13760) Re Exotica it is certainly true that there is nothing quite like it, and I have spent many hours going through many of the sections- fact remains that, like many useful tools, it needs to be used with a clear understanding of what it can do and what it can’t. Perhaps for the new edition, a warning like “Total dependence on the names in this book can be damaging to your communicability”. Derek +More -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of hermine Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:21 PM To: Discussion of aroids; aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Supergenic naming. I do know that in one of his last books he asked Josef Bogner to check names and Boger showed this to both Simon Mayo and I so there was some improvement in the names. The real value of the older version of Exotica 3, which is so widely read, is that it allows us to communicate about plant even if the name is unknown. In some cases it really does not matter if we know the real name. I often hear about such and such a species as on P. such and such in Exotica 3. Tom He once came to our place and photographed some stuff, perhaps it was bamboo, and at that time the names were uncertain; today they are still a subject of polite argument. But he wrote down the names we had, as the best names at the time. EXOTICA was my introduction to rare plants, i lived at the library until i had almost MEMORIZED it. I know the Sansevieria names are all messed up, but it was an amazement to see that there were the uncommon ones photographed and published ANYWHERE in those dark, unenlightened times! hermine _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: HUDSONSBIRDS at webtv.net on 2006.01.22 at 22:28:45(13765) Hermie! AMEN!! I did the same--Then bought the volumes! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list +More Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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