Selling plants on the aroid website??????

From: Brian Williams pugturd at alltel.net> on 2005.10.31 at 21:36:53(13481) I am not sure if the aroid society still has a online board were they discuss stuff like this. When I first joined they allowed me on. At that time I did not quite grasp it's purpose. If their is still a board I would like to join back I think I could throw in a few good suggestions if they like. +More The web site is the key to the society. I purpose a aroid-ebay. Their should be a area were we the collectors and nursery's can sell plants on the aroid web site to other aroiders. Much like ebay. The society takes out a a percent of the winnings or charges so much for each auction. If someone is willing to donate a plant his auction should be free and all winnings go to the society. Another feature could be if you want to sell on the site your will have to join the society and that the joining fee will be taken out slowly form the auctions? The web site hits a large audience and with some advertisement from the society and other members I think it could bring in a good crowd of target buyers. As well as new members looking for rare unusual aroids. I know people like me and Enid give Ebay tons of money every year just to reach buyers for our plants. I would much rather give this money to the society if they can get the buyers to come to the site and bid. It may take a bit of money to advertise but in the long run I think it could make the society a lot of needed money to help it move forward as well as branch out. I know that the society has tried many times with a trade area and a sales area but both seem to have failed manly because of low attendance and lack of participation. A message board under each auction could also help sell the plants. The society members can talk about plant up for auction give opinions on ID as well as growing tips and other info. I am not sure how much a program like this would cost or who could work it out for the group. I do think that many of us could use it and that if it was put together well and easy to operate it could be a huge asset to the society and it's members. Not only a source of income but of information on each individual plant sold. I would like to know what the group thinks of such an idea. Is it worth it will it work should it be tired? I personally believe it could help the society in many ways. I think it would not be a easy task and that if it is done it should be done full throttle. I look forward to any responses and hope all my friends in Florida are doing well. These hurricanes are a real mess. At least it's not freezing like it is here. _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Donna McGraw" donnamcg at swbell.net> on 2005.11.01 at 04:09:02(13483) Brian, I think you have a good idea there - I would participate. ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:36 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Selling plants on the aroid website?????? +More > I am not sure if the aroid society still has a online board were they > discuss stuff like this. When I first joined they allowed me on. At that > time I did not quite grasp it's purpose. If their is still a board I > would like to join back I think I could throw in a few good suggestions > if they like. > > The web site is the key to the society. I purpose a aroid-ebay. Their > should be a area were we the collectors and nursery's can sell plants on > the aroid web site to other aroiders. Much like ebay. The society takes > out a a percent of the winnings or charges so much for each auction. If > someone is willing to donate a plant his auction should be free and all > winnings go to the society. Another feature could be if you want to sell > on the site your will have to join the society and that the joining fee > will be taken out slowly form the auctions? The web site hits a large > audience and with some advertisement from the society and other members > I think it could bring in a good crowd of target buyers. As well as new > members looking for rare unusual aroids. I know people like me and Enid > give Ebay tons of money every year just to reach buyers for our plants. > I would much rather give this money to the society if they can get the > buyers to come to the site and bid. It may take a bit of money to > advertise but in the long run I think it could make the society a lot of > needed money to help it move forward as well as branch out. I know that > the society has tried many times with a trade area and a sales area but > both seem to have failed manly because of low attendance and lack of > participation. A message board under each auction could also help sell > the plants. The society members can talk about plant up for auction give > opinions on ID as well as growing tips and other info. > I am not sure how much a program like this would cost or who could work > it out for the group. I do think that many of us could use it and that > if it was put together well and easy to operate it could be a huge asset > to the society and it's members. Not only a source of income but of > information on each individual plant sold. > > I would like to know what the group thinks of such an idea. Is it worth > it will it work should it be tired? I personally believe it could help > the society in many ways. I think it would not be a easy task and that > if it is done it should be done full throttle. > I look forward to any responses and hope all my friends in Florida are > doing well. These hurricanes are a real mess. At least it's not freezing > like it is here. > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 10/28/2005 > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 10/28/2005 _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Ken Mosher ken at spatulacity.com> on 2005.11.01 at 05:51:07(13484) Hi Brian, I think one of your last statements probably settles the matter; "it will not be an easy task." You understate, creating an auction site is a huge task, and handling the money makes it even harder. eBay has spent many millions of dollars just on the functionality of their site, and millions more to ensure security and confidentiality. The best we can probably do would be to improve the trading part of the site. I haven't been there in a while so I don't have any suggestions for improvements right now. The trick to having an all-volunteer web site like aroid.org work well is to automate as much as possible. The automation takes the burden off the webmaster (or other moderators) by allowing the work to be spread across many people. (As an example, wouldn't it be great if the group that maintains all the genus/species listings with photos had a web-based interface for managing those entries? It would take a lot of work off the hands of the webmaster. But the entire thing would have to move from the world of static HTML to being database driven.) Of course, the automation takes a lot of effort up-front by someone. And then if that person can't maintain it after its creation, when it breaks or needs enhancement (they always do) then somebody has to dive into another person's programming. That's always a challenge! I think is speaks volumes that a large web site like aroid.org works at all while being run by volunteer(s). I'm not sure who helps Albert, if anyone, but every person who references our web site owes Albert, past webmasters and all the content providers a huge debt of gratitude. 95% of our members probably don't know how much work it takes. -Ken Mosher +More Brian Williams wrote: I am not sure if the aroid society still has a online board were they discuss stuff like this. When I first joined they allowed me on. At that time I did not quite grasp it's purpose. If their is still a board I would like to join back I think I could throw in a few good suggestions if they like. The web site is the key to the society. I purpose a aroid-ebay. Their should be a area were we the collectors and nursery's can sell plants on the aroid web site to other aroiders. Much like ebay. The society takes out a a percent of the winnings or charges so much for each auction. If someone is willing to donate a plant his auction should be free and all winnings go to the society. Another feature could be if you want to sell on the site your will have to join the society and that the joining fee will be taken out slowly form the auctions? The web site hits a large audience and with some advertisement from the society and other members I think it could bring in a good crowd of target buyers. As well as new members looking for rare unusual aroids. I know people like me and Enid give Ebay tons of money every year just to reach buyers for our plants. I would much rather give this money to the society if they can get the buyers to come to the site and bid. It may take a bit of money to advertise but in the long run I think it could make the society a lot of needed money to help it move forward as well as branch out. I know that the society has tried many times with a trade area and a sales area but both seem to have failed manly because of low attendance and lack of participation. A message board under each auction could also help sell the plants. The society members can talk about plant up for auction give opinions on ID as well as growing tips and other info. I am not sure how much a program like this would cost or who could work it out for the group. I do think that many of us could use it and that if it was put together well and easy to operate it could be a huge asset to the society and it's members. Not only a source of income but of information on each individual plant sold. I would like to know what the group thinks of such an idea. Is it worth it will it work should it be tired? I personally believe it could help the society in many ways. I think it would not be a easy task and that if it is done it should be done full throttle. I look forward to any responses and hope all my friends in Florida are doing well. These hurricanes are a real mess. At least it's not freezing like it is here. _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Bryant, Susan L." SLBryant at scj.com> on 2005.11.01 at 13:17:17(13486) Brian I think that is a great idea, and I agree with your assessment that it will not be easy to get up and running. I also agree this could bring in many new members and create higher visibility for the IAS and Aroids. +More Here are a few sites that I know of that have something like you propose. http://cometothefarm.com/ is used by our Anatolian Shepherd Dog society for fund raisers. I think the registration and log in is somewhat tedious, and I don't think you can see the object once the auction is over. I use eBay quite a bit to check prices on all sorts of collectibles. Here is one for lilies http://www.daylily.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "W. George Schmid" hostahill at bellsouth.net> on 2005.11.02 at 18:39:53(13493) I second the discussion presented by Ken. The AHostaS talked about doing that and it turned out to be too much work by too few people. The AHS is now using auctions, but takes place at the national as well as regional meetings. It has 8 regions and dozens of local societies. I realize the IAS is not that large and that may not as yet be feasible. Running a bidding site is a humongous job. George W. George Schmid +More Hosta Hill R. G. USDA Zone 7a - 1188 feet (361m) AMSL 84-12'-30" W 33-51' N > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l- > bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Ken Mosher > Sent: Tuesday, 01 November, 2005 0:51 > To: Discussion of aroids > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Selling plants on the aroid website?????? > > Hi Brian, > > I think one of your last statements probably settles the matter; "it > will not be an easy task." You understate, creating an auction site is a > huge task, and handling the money makes it even harder. > > eBay has spent many millions of dollars just on the functionality of > their site, and millions more to ensure security and confidentiality. > The best we can probably do would be to improve the trading part of the > site. I haven't been there in a while so I don't have any suggestions > for improvements right now. _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Baumfarn Webmaster webmaster at baumfarn.at> on 2005.11.02 at 18:57:27(13494) It would be beneficial to the IAS but I doubt if it would be beneficial to the members too. Esspecially for those living overseas (Europe) I'm still no member of the IAS 'cause I would never be able to participates to the meetings, most of them held in US. What other benefits there are? Aroideana, it's cheaper do buy single issues. Oh yes, there's a newsletter too, but what's in it? Will just this newsleter justify the membership fee? I doubt. Allthough it should be very important holding it that secret. Also many other offerings are not reachable because due to the different time zones, messages receive me sometimes with delays of several hours. greetings +More Peter --------------------------------------------------------------------------- treeferns & aroids: http://www.baumfarn.at/treefern (http://www.baumfarn.at) --------------------------------------------------- Amorphophallus network: http://www.amorphophallus.baumfarn.at/ _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2005.11.02 at 22:44:44(13496) To add to your list Susan is Eggbid, for those interested in fowl. here's the link http://www.eggbid.com/ +More Personally I think its a great idea. I am sick of Ebay taking my money and would MUCH rather it go to the IAS. Michael _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Brian Williams pugturd at alltel.net> on 2005.11.02 at 22:50:44(13497) I think you truly under estimate the aroid society. A quick search on Yahoo or Google will bring up tons of programs for building your own automated auction site. Most are under 100.00 dollars. I doubt it would be that big of a burden, a monitor to view the auctions so nothing inappropriate is up and that should about do it. People put up their own auctions with pics and descriptions. I don't see any problems with that. I would monitor it if it's that big a deal? +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Ken Mosher ken at spatulacity.com> on 2005.11.03 at 06:34:32(13499) Hey, don't let my experience discourage anyone from taking on this project! Brian has offered to do the ongoing monitoring of auctions for the rest of time. Which server-side web developer out there is willing to evaluate 3 to 5 of the tons of programs that cost under $100 to see which ones suck and which ones are great? Oh, wait, until the webmaster declares whether we must use ASP, or PHP or JSP we can't do the evaluation. Which backend database will our host support? That will narrow down those tons of programs to a much smaller number. Now someone has to find a good product from that reduced pool. Only choose a product that's been out for at least 3 years and has 100 installations - pool is even smaller. Only choose a product that has an active support forum so when things go wrong we can fix them. Pool got even smaller. +More A true tale: A friend of mine asked me to design a fancy, party-neutral political web site for him. Among other things, he wanted a forum for discussion of town issues. I told him I'd make him a site, but I wouldn't maintain it. I didn't have the time for that. I did a search and found tons of choices for forum software. I whittled them down to just the ones written in ASP, since that's what I know. I read about the features carefully, I looked at the vendors' sites and at demo forums. I chose Snitz, I recommend it if you use ASP. A Snitz forum can be administered by pretty much anyone once it's installed and set up, doesn't require a programmer. To me, using the forum was child's play, but I'm a programmer by profession. Of course installing the software took me MANY HOURS because one of the ASP statements was crashing. I had to delve into someone else's logic and programming style. I had to find ONE bad statement somewhere in one of about 10 ASP files that were used just to load the first page. I found it, a statement I'd never seen before and never used before. It had something to do with localizing the language. I took it out and it fixed the problem without affecting functionality. When I contacted my host (for the 3rd or 5th time) I discovered that the web site wasn't running under IIS after all, it was something else that was trying to support ASP and not doing it perfectly. I had previously been told it was running under IIS (Microsoft's web server). Then it turns out that the forum software I felt was extremely easy to administer and use was confounding to my friend (who was supposed to administer it, it was HIS site after all) and to many of the users. The end result was that the site was never used very much and we let the domain name expire. I wasted MANY hours of my valuable time. Call me a pessimist, mostly you'd be right, although I always insist I'm a realist. I don't underestimate the aroid society. They're the brightest, handsomest, cleverest, wittiest, friendliest, bestest bunch of people I've ever had the pleasure to associate with! That sounds sarcastic, but call it tongue-in-cheek because if it wasn't true I wouldn't hang around with you all. Ask Enid and Dan Devor and Ron McHatton and the Malesiana guys and Tony Avent how much time (and expense) their web sites take up. I know mine takes a lot of time, and it's not even very good for all the effort! I take you back to my opening sentence, "Hey, don't let my experience discourage anyone from taking on this project!" And if the aroid.org auction site does open for business I might even use it - if I'm not banned for being such a pain in the ass! -Ken P.S. Thanks, George! Brian Williams wrote: I think you truly under estimate the aroid society. A quick search on Yahoo or Google will bring up tons of programs for building your own automated auction site. Most are under 100.00 dollars. I doubt it would be that big of a burden, a monitor to view the auctions so nothing inappropriate is up and that should about do it. People put up their own auctions with pics and descriptions. I don't see any problems with that. I would monitor it if it's that big a deal? _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Albert Huntington balberth at yahoo.com> on 2005.11.04 at 15:48:44(13503) Folks, The IAS Board of Directors will be discussing this and some other related related proposals. I think we all agree that it's a complicated thing that could easily fail, and there are some issues about billing that will require a bit of thought. It's going to, at the very least, require some research to determine if it would get used and pay for itself. Anyway, we're thinking about it. --Albert +More IAS Web Guy _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Albert Huntington balberth at yahoo.com> on 2005.11.04 at 16:15:28(13504) Peter Wrote: >I'm still no member of the IAS ... What other benefits there are? +More Peter, The biggest benefits of the IAS are ones which you are already enjoying. Aroid researchers have a place to publish their work for free, students are given small grants to continue their research, information on aroids is freely available to the public on the aroid.org website, aroid related activities are coordinated. It is the mission of the IAS to promote Aroids, aroid research, and aroid education. Without your membership, we lose the ability to do this. If you value the work we are doing, then you might want to join, volunteer, and help us out. This is not enough incentive for everyone, so we are forced to provide some things to members only. We do these things you must pay for in order to do more of the things everyone gets for free. When you join, you get: - Aroideana, annual journal of the IAS. Back issues are cheaper, if you want to wait a year or more, and if you don't mind missing the newsletters and website access and so on ... you can save yourself $10.00. - Quarterly Newsletters. There are many interesting articles in the newsletters, more oriented towards the hobby grower than Aroideana. A couple of samples are on the newsletter page of the IAS, and an index of back issues is available to the public as well: http://www.aroid.org/society/newsletr.html - Website access. You can read the back issues of the newsletter, see a collection of old Aroid prints, access an indexed archive of excerpts from old Aroid-L postings, access a full membership directory database, and download an electronic book on Aglaonemas. More exciting features are coming sooner than you think. We think it's a good deal, and a better deal than many of the other small societies out there. You can join online with a credit card from anywhere in the world by visiting http://www.aroid.org/ --Albert IAS Web Guy _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: EGoldfluss at aol.com on 2005.11.04 at 16:26:27(13505) Hi- I buy Aroids on Ebay all the time. I'm always looking for new sources and would love to see what divisions members offer. Thanks Ed +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "StroWi at t-online.de" StroWi at t-online.de> on 2005.11.04 at 17:37:23(13507) Aroiders, if I am not wrong, the trading section that was run on the aroid website was closed in the meantime. I do not know the reasons. Why not just reopen it instead of setting up an auction platform? An auction platform might might have the advantage that fees promote the IAS instead of increasing the income of ebay. However, looking back at the fate of the trading section, I doubt that an action platform will be any better. Good growing, Bernhard. +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: plantguy at zoominternet.net> on 2005.11.05 at 04:11:35(13510) Well, ever since I read the original post from Brian I've been sort of contemplating the idea put forth. I agree with Ken that this is a very complex undertaking that likely will require a full-time employee that can oversee all aspects of the auction business. Of course, the IAS needs to decide whether their ambition is to become a business with the long-term goal of furthering education with respect to aroids. I assume that the IAS is a non-profit organization and so the hoped for wind-fall should be well thought out in advance. If their are extra monies then who is going to review the grant proposals that come in for exploration?? What sort of format would be implemented to approve applications for monies?? I would also hope that the IAS dues are not used for advertising purposes. While I am considering joining the IAS as I benefit from the aroid-l and info disseminated I would not join if I felt that my dues were being used to advertise an auction house. Obviously, the money raised form the auctions culd be used for that purpose. Also, if the IAS is taking an active role in advertising the business end of things then they would seem to be tacitly approving what is being sold. This is a critical point as it goes to credibility. In my field of work (professor of Cell Biology and Physiology) credibility is paramount and so it should be for any organization that is attempting to educate the public at large. Having said that, I wonder who would be responsible for policing the auctions? We have all seen the auctions where a bulbifer bulbil is advertised as rare just because the petiole is supposedly unique when of course it is not at all unique and the seller must surely know that. How about an Amorph. konjac advertised as being "rare"! Would the IAS wish to promote such a message with an auction that they have advertised to draw people in?? If education is the goal of the IAS, which I feel confident it is, then auctions being promoted by the IAS should hopefully meet the same standard as the rest of the information on the wonderful site that has been developed to date. I know that if I were purchasing from such a site I would expect a correctly IDed plant that is promoted fairly and not with an ostentatious, over the top, gimmic-laden, ebay-ish bunch of nonsense. Obviously, I do not see this as simply an ebay competitor. On ebay everyone must surely know that it is buyer beware, whereas when you are purchasing an aroid from an aroid society promoted web site I would sincerely hope that the standard would be far, far higher. While the notion presented has merit, I clearly feel that one of the last things to be considered is how much money can be made. Rather, I personally feel that the education mission and credibility of the wonderful IAS organization should be considered in terms of how it may be raised up or diminished by such a venture. If a side benfit is making extra money that can be used to further this mission then so be it, but more money at the cost of credibility is of no consequence and in fact rather damaging. I may be completely off base (not atypical), but I just felt after givng this some thought that the IAS should consider something more than the work-load and money that can be made which has dominated the posts to date. Obviously, I sell a few different aroids on ebay, via my web site and via communications with aroid geeks like myself and am not opposed to the notion. I just feel that the members of the IAS should consider carefully what sort of foot they want to put forward from the initial guiding principles of education before venturing forth with a business venture that will directly impact on the image of the society either favorably or the less favorable possibility. +More Have a great wekend everyone :o) Dan Daniel Devor zone 6a Gibsonia, PA www.TreasuredBotanicals.com ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Selling plants on the aroid website?????? Folks, The IAS Board of Directors will be discussing this and some other related related proposals. I think we all agree that it's a complicated thing that could easily fail, and there are some issues about billing that will require a bit of thought. It's going to, at the very least, require some research to determine if it would get used and pay for itself. Anyway, we're thinking about it. --Albert IAS Web Guy _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Tom philofan at philodendron.org> on 2005.11.05 at 07:19:01(13511) I appreciate Brian's idea and agree with the spirit of it. However, from experience (I develop sites for a living), I know the amount of work involved just with static web sites. Adding the dynamic component in is not a cheap endeavor, if it is to be done right.I'd like to suggest a simpler solution I am setting up for our rainforest organization: set up your eBay auctions to donate in part or in full, to the non-profit of your choice. How about donating to IAS in your next auction? Isn't IAS a non-profit?You can read details here:?http://givingworks.ebay.com/sell/It may be possible to build an IAS page that lists current auctions with an API or simply link to all auctions that benefit IAS.Note that a $10 minimum is required per donation.?When you sell an item with eBay Giving Works and donate at least 90% of the final sale price to a certified nonprofit, eBay will donate the Insertion and Final Value Fees you paid to the organization you selected within your listing.That's one nice way to get rid of our ext ra plants.IAS needs to be "certified", but once that happens, we can all donate to IAS in our future auctions.-Tom Vincze_______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list +More Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Don Martinson llmen at wi.rr.com> on 2005.11.06 at 18:43:04(13514) This sounds like a much better idea. Ebay is already set up with handy features for both buyer and seller. Why take the time and expense to reinvent the wheel? Don Martinson +More Milwaukee, Wisconsin I appreciate Brian's idea and agree with the spirit of it. However, from experience (I develop sites for a living), I know the amount of work involved just with static web sites. Adding the dynamic component in is not a cheap endeavor, if it is to be done right. I'd like to suggest a simpler solution I am setting up for our rainforest organization: set up your eBay auctions to donate in part or in full, to the non-profit of your choice. How about donating to IAS in your next auction? Isn't IAS a non-profit? _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.