Let the buyers beware.

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.07.26 at 09:31:15(11818) Dear All, Just a note to friends on this list who patronize the 'auction' sites on the web to purchase plants, let the buyer beware! Recently there have been some offerings of aroids that are in reality not what they are advertized to be, seemingly deliberately misidentified species, and plants advertised as being 'exceedingly rare', etc. that are in fact readily available from many sources at 1/4 the starting price put on them on these sites. That is not to say that there are some good and rare offerings of seeds and some rare collected plants that are being offered, my warning is about those others, I guess 'know your source' would be a good way to put it. If anyone has doubts about a pending or a purchase being considered, I guess you can ask about the quality on this and other lists, maybe you will save yourself a lot of wasted $$. I have tried to contact these sites directly (with assistance other friends on these lists) to inform them of this form of what I percieve as a fraud, but the sites do not allow comment from anyone who does or has not bought plants or items from these sites. Amazing! Good Luck! Julius Boos +More WPB, Florida

From: "Leslie R." <leslier55 at excite.com> on 2004.07.26 at 14:54:02(11822) I've never bought anything from E-Bay, and rarely go there. But recently there was an "ultra-rare, prehistoric-looking Philo" for sale on there. Maybe some of you saw it. What was it? An Epipremnum pinnatum. Some good people sell on E-Bay, and like Julius says - know your seller. Leslie _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com +More The most personalized portal on the Web!

From: elizabeth at begoniac.com on 2004.07.26 at 16:50:39(11825) Julius, eBay does allow you to send emails to a seller. Just go to the individual listing and click on Ask seller a question. Checking the seller's feedback is a good practice, but isn't foolproof. Elizabeth +More On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:31:15 +0000, "Julius Boos" wrote: Dear All, Just a note to friends on this list who patronize the 'auction' sites on the web to purchase plants, let the buyer beware! Recently there have been some offerings of aroids that are in reality not what they are advertized to be, seemingly deliberately misidentified species, and plants advertised as being 'exceedingly rare', etc. that are in fact readily available from many sources at 1/4 the starting price put on them on these sites. That is not to say that there are some good and rare offerings of seeds and some rare collected plants that are being offered, my warning is about those others, I guess 'know your source' would be a good way to put it. If anyone has doubts about a pending or a purchase being considered, I guess you can ask about the quality on this and other lists, maybe you will save yourself a lot of wasted $$. I have tried to contact these sites directly (with assistance other friends on these lists) to inform them of this form of what I percieve as a fraud, but the sites do not allow comment from anyone who does or has not bought plants or items from these sites. Amazing! Good Luck! Julius Boos WPB, Florida

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2004.07.26 at 22:40:30(11827) Yes, Leslie, I saw that "rare Prehistoric Philo" on one of the auction sites as well. Epipremnum pinnatum. Michael

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2004.07.26 at 22:47:41(11828) Elizabeth, does ebay let you send a direct message to the bidders? I hate seeing these poor people bidding up on plants that can be had for, like Julius said, 1/4 of the going price at most nurseries. Not to mention they think they are getting something only a few collectors in the world have due to misleading SOB sellars. I guess this happens all the time in every category on ebay and other auction sites but it just irks me to see people getting ripped off by the same few every time. Michael

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.07.26 at 22:48:14(11829) >From: elizabeth@begoniac.com >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:50:39 -0400 (EDT) > Thanks, Elizabeth, but the main seller who offers these 'rare'/misidentified plants has put me on his 'off list' for obvious reasons! Again, LET THE BUYER BEWARE! Julius +More >Julius, > >eBay does allow you to send emails to a seller. Just go to the individual >listing and click on Ask seller a question. Checking the seller's feedback >is a good practice, but isn't foolproof. > >Elizabeth > >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:31:15 +0000, "Julius Boos" wrote: > > >Dear All, >Just a note to friends on this list who patronize the 'auction' sites on >the web to purchase plants, let the buyer beware! > Recently there have been some offerings of aroids that are in reality not >what they are advertized to be, seemingly deliberately misidentified >species, and plants advertised as being 'exceedingly rare', etc. that are >in fact readily available from many sources at 1/4 the starting price put >on them on these sites. That is not to say that there are some good and >rare offerings of seeds and some rare collected plants that are being >offered, my warning is about those others, I guess 'know your source' would >be a good way to put it. If anyone has doubts about a pending or a >purchase being considered, I guess you can ask about the quality on this >and other lists, maybe you will save yourself a lot of wasted $$. >I have tried to contact these sites directly (with assistance other friends >on these lists) to inform them of this form of what I percieve as a fraud, >but the sites do not allow comment from anyone who does or has not bought >plants or items from these sites. Amazing! >Good Luck! >Julius Boos >WPB, >Florida

From: "Leslie R." <leslier55 at excite.com> on 2004.07.27 at 16:10:58(11834) I don't look at the auction sites very often, and I always get upset when I do. I'm anal about plants having proper names attached to them, and I hate common names (one plant can have many "common" names). It's a shame that people buy these plants who don't know any better. There's always a few dishonest people in every bunch, which makes it frustrating for those of us who are honest.Leslie RuleColumbia, MO _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com +More The most personalized portal on the Web!

From: "bamboochik" <bamboochik at earthlink.net> on 2004.07.27 at 19:17:08(11838) Michael, can you send one or two of the ebay url's for these auctions? I am curious now...b.f.n...deb ----- Original Message ----- +More To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. > Elizabeth, does ebay let you send a direct message to the bidders? I hate > seeing these poor people bidding up on plants that can be had for, like Julius > said, 1/4 of the going price at most nurseries. Not to mention they think > they are getting something only a few collectors in the world have due to > misleading SOB sellars. I guess this happens all the time in every category on ebay > and other auction sites but it just irks me to see people getting ripped off > by the same few every time. > Michael

From: "Jeff Rosenstiel" <jjjj4 at comcast.net> on 2004.07.27 at 22:57:00(11841) Ok People, lets stop the Ebay bad talk here, what the difference, At the aroid shows auctions I have been at people paid over $1000.00 for a plant, not like anyone was holding a gun to there head, Sure we all thought they were a little crazy but hey.... Even at the Aroid show/sales, the vender booths, Some are not what I would call selling for cheap, Yet some are offering real Deals, Same on ebay, no one's making them pay that, Yes you do have to keep a eye out for items that are not named correctly, Thats true, But If you know its not correct, Just don't bid. Or if you dont know what your bidding on, You should check it out/look it up before you bid. Hey I sell on ebay, I start items out at $9.99, If someone wants to pay some huge amount that there choice, You have to remember too , Not everyone lives in Florida and can find a item down the road, For cheap, Most of the "buyers" on ebay are not from florida, So to them it is "rare" Or wants to wait 3 + months for a order to be filled from a nursery. Had to say somthing, I know there are "lots" of people on this list that sell on ebay, Yet no one else has said anything Jeff +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. > Elizabeth, does ebay let you send a direct message to the bidders? I hate > seeing these poor people bidding up on plants that can be had for, like Julius > said, 1/4 of the going price at most nurseries. Not to mention they think > they are getting something only a few collectors in the world have due to > misleading SOB sellars. I guess this happens all the time in every category on ebay > and other auction sites but it just irks me to see people getting ripped off > by the same few every time. > Michael

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.07.27 at 23:03:18(11843) >From: RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:40:30 EDT > And this and several of the other 'rare offerings' are common feral aroid escapees-from-cultivation here in Florida, others are available here in Florida at Home Depot and K-Mart in their garden sections at a fraction of the price asked. BUYER BEWARE. Julius +More >Yes, Leslie, I saw that "rare Prehistoric Philo" on one of the auction sites >as well. Epipremnum pinnatum. >Michael

From: "Jeff Rosenstiel" <jjjj4 at comcast.net> on 2004.07.27 at 23:26:13(11844) P.S. I think it was Dewey that said " once two people have the plant, it's not rare" And "If it's at Kmart, I don't Grow it" :) Jeff +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Julius Boos To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. >From: elizabeth@begoniac.com >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. >Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 12:50:39 -0400 (EDT) > Thanks, Elizabeth, but the main seller who offers these 'rare'/misidentified plants has put me on his 'off list' for obvious reasons! Again, LET THE BUYER BEWARE! Julius >Julius, > >eBay does allow you to send emails to a seller. Just go to the individual >listing and click on Ask seller a question. Checking the seller's feedback >is a good practice, but isn't foolproof. > >Elizabeth > >On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:31:15 +0000, "Julius Boos" wrote: > > >Dear All, >Just a note to friends on this list who patronize the 'auction' sites on >the web to purchase plants, let the buyer beware! > Recently there have been some offerings of aroids that are in reality not >what they are advertized to be, seemingly deliberately misidentified >species, and plants advertised as being 'exceedingly rare', etc. that are >in fact readily available from many sources at 1/4 the starting price put >on them on these sites. That is not to say that there are some good and >rare offerings of seeds and some rare collected plants that are being >offered, my warning is about those others, I guess 'know your source' would >be a good way to put it. If anyone has doubts about a pending or a >purchase being considered, I guess you can ask about the quality on this >and other lists, maybe you will save yourself a lot of wasted $$. >I have tried to contact these sites directly (with assistance other friends >on these lists) to inform them of this form of what I percieve as a fraud, >but the sites do not allow comment from anyone who does or has not bought >plants or items from these sites. Amazing! >Good Luck! >Julius Boos >WPB, >Florida

From: elizabeth at begoniac.com on 2004.07.27 at 23:56:13(11845) Yes, you can contact the bidder. Click on the bidder's name, and it will take you to his/her feedback page. On the right side of the screen there's a button that says Contact Member. Click on that to write them a message. They may or may not believe you or welcome your information. It infuriates me too when I see people being defrauded that way. Many people refuse to buy on eBay because of a few bad sellers. That's a shame. I've bought and sold a lot of plants on eBay with only one minor bad experience (a non-paying buyer). But I read feedback and do research and know what I'm bidding on. Elizabeth +More On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 18:47:41 EDT, RAYMOMATTLA@cs.com wrote: > > Elizabeth, does ebay let you send a direct message to the bidders? I hate > seeing these poor people bidding up on plants that can be had for, like > Julius > said, 1/4 of the going price at most nurseries. Not to mention they think > they are getting something only a few collectors in the world have due to > misleading SOB sellars. I guess this happens all the time in every > category on ebay > and other auction sites but it just irks me to see people getting ripped > off > by the same few every time. > Michael

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2004.07.28 at 01:48:32(11846) Jeff, I sell on ebay at least once a week, but I would never blatantly lie about the rarity of the plant I was selling. A few bad seeds make alot of us look bad. But thats the case with any business I guess. Michael

From: "Mitch ." <iamwhatiam52 at hotmail.com> on 2004.07.28 at 03:42:27(11849) Yes. Buyer beware. But be open minded. Having bought dozens of plants on ebay, my experiences have been sometimes worse, but often better than with commercial nurseries. Having sold hundreds of plants on eBay, my opinion on the prices being paid is admittedly biased, but the supposedly high prices sometimes paid are usually for plants of a variety or SIZE not available elsewhere. Also, as many amateurs are starting to sell, prices are coming way down. You simply cannot get an Amo corm bigger than a walnut for love or money from a commercial nursery, but softball sized corms for common types can now be had at auction for not much more than the walnuts. And who is to say what a fair price is for a real monster, like the size of a bowling ball? Why don't the nurseries sell five or ten pound corms? There is no substitute for a good, reliable professional nursery, and you are going out on a limb when you buy at auction or from any new source. But why not go out on a limb? That's where the fruit is! Mitch

From: "Tropicals" <Tropicals at SolutionsAnalysis.net> on 2004.07.28 at 12:52:05(11853) Here Here on enough is enough. Many of us join this forum to learn, we gain trust in their statements and knowledge and the pictures they take. We look up to those with many years experience and rely upon their word. Oh, you mean they were wrong? I trusted their word and labeled my plant they way they said to. Oh my, what now? It is up to us to maintain integrity and be helpful and not criticize. I am one that has made an error (label came with plant); I received a note from a kind soul that corrected me. Yes I felt like a complete butt about it and quite embarrassed; but that individual helped me learn. There are several of us selling on eBay from this global group, maybe even relying upon those sales as a sole source of income due to a disability or simply a desire. I DO NOT know how to gauge RARE or UNUSUAL or EXTREMELY RARE as I have seen primarily from experience. I'll receive an inquiry about a plant featured on the eNursery and that individual will say how absolutely rare it is (to them) and common to me. I believe those were "absolutely rare" to most of us at one time or another, unless we memorized all of A.B. Graf's books or all of the excellent documents written by well respected aroiders at a very early age! +More My point is I appreciate guidance and learning something new every day, as long as it is accurate. I have been really burnt by a number of eBay purchases and can completely agree with the statement BUYER BEWARE. All that did was make me more sensitive to the detailed descriptions and pictures I provide. New pictures are taken right before an auction so they can see CURRENT status of the plant. I send more pictures if requested, so they can make a knowledgeable and comfortable decision. I readily answer questions and if one of my items on eBay goes up to $1,000 for an item, I will thank the Lord and accept it. Of course, none have but it all comes down to what the market can bear and how much I am willing to spend of eBay/PayPal fees. I used to start at the 9.99 to keep fees low and had to release the $80 specimen for 9.99 because there was only one bid. We do hope that in the end, it will all even out. So how about we all learn from our experiences and worry about our own backyard more than becoming critical of others. I appreciate warnings also, but this topic is just "singing to the choir"! Christian Your AlterNative Solutions Team www.SolutionsAnalysis.net Direct to Tropical / Desert Nursery http://www.solutionsanalysis.net/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Jeff Rosenstiel Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:57 PM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. Ok People, lets stop the Ebay bad talk here, what the difference, At the aroid shows auctions I have been at people paid over $1000.00 for a plant, not like anyone was holding a gun to there head, Sure we all thought they were a little crazy but hey.... Even at the Aroid show/sales, the vender booths, Some are not what I would call selling for cheap, Yet some are offering real Deals, Same on ebay, no one's making them pay that, Yes you do have to keep a eye out for items that are not named correctly, Thats true, But If you know its not correct, Just don't bid. Or if you dont know what your bidding on, You should check it out/look it up before you bid. Hey I sell on ebay, I start items out at $9.99, If someone wants to pay some huge amount that there choice, You have to remember too , Not everyone lives in Florida and can find a item down the road, For cheap, Most of the "buyers" on ebay are not from florida, So to them it is "rare" Or wants to wait 3 + months for a order to be filled from a nursery. Had to say somthing, I know there are "lots" of people on this list that sell on ebay, Yet no one else has said anything Jeff ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. > Elizabeth, does ebay let you send a direct message to the bidders? I hate > seeing these poor people bidding up on plants that can be had for, like Julius > said, 1/4 of the going price at most nurseries. Not to mention they think > they are getting something only a few collectors in the world have due to > misleading SOB sellars. I guess this happens all the time in every category on ebay > and other auction sites but it just irks me to see people getting ripped off > by the same few every time. > Michael

From: "Leslie R." <leslier55 at excite.com> on 2004.07.28 at 13:37:16(11856) You're right, Michael, there's bad people in every business. Plants, used cars, pets, houses, everything. It is a shame as it makes people distrustful of others.Leslie _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com +More The most personalized portal on the Web!

From: "ron iles" <roniles at eircom.net> on 2004.07.28 at 14:58:36(11857) Folks I have bought almost fifty items on eBay, not plants & they have nearly all been from wonderful honorable people. Because eBay is "moderated" maybe sellers & buyers have to be good to each other or they don't last long there? I haven't tried selling Spathiphyllum cultivars on eBay to the EEC (no time consuming papers necessary between the 26 Countries) . May be a splendid way to cut down to species only here. Thanks! Thought I'd send the following, a light smile to the present chain! Q: How many subscribers to an online message board does it take to change a light bulb? +More Answers: One to change the light bulb and to post the fact that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... Another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive Two industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 2 to post reasons why the light bulb burning out is the result of a government conspiracy. 4 to say "didn't we cover this a few months ago?" 43 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs" 5 to say "thank you" 1 lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again Ron X Lurker

From: "Leslie R." <leslier55 at excite.com> on 2004.07.28 at 16:07:02(11861) You have hit the nail on the head, Ron! You've obviously been around message boards for a while. Need to thin a few Spath cultivars, do you? Leslie _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com +More The most personalized portal on the Web!

From: "bamboochik" <bamboochik at earthlink.net> on 2004.07.28 at 16:18:17(11863) I did...b.f.n...deb ----- Original Message ----- To: +More Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Let the buyers beware. Or wants to wait 3 + months for a order to be filled from a nursery. > Had to say somthing, I know there are "lots" of people on this list that > sell on ebay, Yet no one else has said anything > Jeff >

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