How many leaves??

From: ken at spatulacity.com on 2003.08.16 at 03:46:59(10483) I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from the nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana says that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at once)! How unusual is that and does it have any implications? -Ken

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2003.08.16 at 11:33:42(10484) THE implication is that the plant is feeling VERY good! It is not as unusual as may be led to believe from my Aroideana paper........ Wilbert +More > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu > [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu]Namens ken@spatulacity.com > Verzonden: zaterdag 16 augustus 2003 5:47 > Aan: Aroid list > Onderwerp: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this > year from the > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of > Aroideana says > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there > at once)! How > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > -Ken

From: "Peter C Boyce" levieux.jardin at wanadoo.fr> on 2003.08.16 at 11:58:00(10485) I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium venosum (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in diameter and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with three leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. Peter +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Aroid list" Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:46 AM Subject: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from the > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana says > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at once)! How > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > -Ken

From: "Ron" ronlene at adelphia.net> on 2003.08.16 at 13:12:09(10486) Do each of the leaves have their own petiole, or is it one petiole branching? Ron -----Original Message----- +More On Behalf Of Peter C Boyce Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:58 AM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium venosum (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in diameter and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with three leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. Peter ----- Original Message ----- To: "Aroid list" Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:46 AM Subject: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from the > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana says > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at once)! How > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > -Ken

From: "Petra Schmidt" petra at plantdelights.com> on 2003.08.16 at 14:48:55(10487) I've also seen the multiple leafing process in Amorphophallus tubers from tissue culture...tc plantlets typically produce leaf after leaf after leaf in the first growing season, probably a method of building up its root system to form a tuber size large enough to sustain itself through dormancy and the following growing season? It's an odd thing to witness... Petra +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium venosum > (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves > simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in diameter > and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with three > leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce > exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. > > Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Aroid list" > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:46 AM > Subject: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from the > > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana says > > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at once)! > How > > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > > > -Ken >

From: Neil Gordon neil at ng23.abelgratis.co.uk> on 2003.08.16 at 22:45:32(10489) How big do the leaves of A. Bulbifer grow, I found one at my local Succulent nursery last week, and I bougt one, the corm was about 3.5 inches across and the leaf is now 15" high and about 12" across. Neil +More On Saturday, August 16, 2003, at 12:58 pm, Peter C Boyce wrote: I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium venosum (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in diameter and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with three leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. Peter ----- Original Message ----- I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from the nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana says that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at once)! How unusual is that and does it have any implications? -Ken

From: ken at spatulacity.com on 2003.08.17 at 00:44:00(10490) Each has its own petiole. Can petioles branch? I've never heard of such a thing. -Ken +More Ron wrote: > > Do each of the leaves have their own petiole, or is it one petiole > branching? Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Peter C Boyce > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:58 AM > To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium > venosum > (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves > simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in > diameter > and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with > three > leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce > exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. > > Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Aroid list" > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:46 AM > Subject: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from > the > > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana > says > > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at > once)! > How > > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > > > -Ken

From: "Mitch ." iamwhatiam52 at hotmail.com> on 2003.08.17 at 01:45:58(10491) My experience with Amorphophallus is limited to konjac since I seem to be unusually adept at killing any others I try to grow, but I have also grown Typhonium (Sauromatum) venosum for years. In konjac, multiple leaves ALWAYS result in the same number of corms instead of one BIG corm, while in venosum, many leaves usually result in one big corm. Both also produce offsets regardless of how many leaves. My point is that Typhonium may behave differently from Amorphophallus. As to why Amos produce multiple leaves, sometimes they just do for no reason I've been able to observe, but most of the time it seems to be due to damage, or size. If a growing tip is damaged by cold, rot or a clumsy fool with a shovel, it produces multiple buds. I've seen as many as 15 on one large tuber. When tubers get larger than a bowling ball (25 pounds) they seem to "want" to split up. Perhaps Mother Nature knows this is as big as they are supposed to get. I have tricked Mom by cutting off extra buds, but it's not nice to fool Mother Nature......... the huge corms are not fully absorbed, leaving a messy remnant of the old tuber under the new one, usually partly rotted. After cutting them off to protect my prized giant, the remnant grows multiple buds the following season. Mitch +More _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?pageþatures/featuredemail

From: "Peter C Boyce" levieux.jardin at wanadoo.fr> on 2003.08.17 at 06:18:03(10493) Hi Ron Each leaf has their own petiole and each leaf emerges from the tiny sheath at the base of the previous, with the primary leaf practically ruptured basally. Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > Do each of the leaves have their own petiole, or is it one petiole > branching? Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Peter C Boyce > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:58 AM > To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium > venosum > (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves > simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in > diameter > and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with > three > leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce > exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. > > Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Aroid list" > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:46 AM > Subject: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from > the > > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana > says > > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at > once)! > How > > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > > > -Ken > > >

From: Dietmar Kiehlmann Kiehlmann at gmx.de> on 2003.08.17 at 11:23:13(10494) Some weeks ago, we observed on one of our Am. bulbifer that a second petiole emerged about 4 cm above the soil from the existing petiole. Later, this second petiole broadened downwards, as shown on the picture. The arrow indicates the original emerging point. Hence branching of petioles is possible within the genus Amorphophallus and, as Wilbert wrote to us, is also known e.g. from A. paeoniifolius and A. glossophyllus. +More Best regards Margret & Dietmar Kiehlmann

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.08.17 at 12:47:56(10495) Hello all Friends, Perhaps my 'slant' of this multiple leaves produced by one tuber topic may give an 'off-base' explanation that may satisfy some. Bear in mind that some/several genera of aroids are VERY adaptable plants, they rapidly modify their growth forms and patterns in response to their surroundings, so that when these surroundings change, either by a 'natural' event (a tree-fall or forest fire, for example) or are changed by humans for their 'benefit' such as a jungle 'slash-and-burn' or clear-cut, or by being brought into cultivation by an avid plant collector and placed in a better lighted situation, their tubers or rhizomes now potted and lovingly enclosed by extra-nutritious and better drained soil, then provided with water and fertilizer on a regular basis, all sorts of changes can and do take place. Man has taken advantage of this tendency in this group of plants in many ways. In the case of the genus Xanthosoma, and some Colocasia sps. the plants when cultivated in specific ways then produce economically satisfactory quantities of edible off-shoot bulbils/rhizomes. These 'offshoots' seldom occur if the plant is just left to its own devices, it will just grow to a large size with none or few off-shoot rhizomes. Amorphophallus is one of the aroid genera in which some selected species are cultivated as food crops, and other 'wild' growing species are collected as food. There is a most interesting article on the cultivation of Amorphophallus paeoniifolius in the latest issue of our 'Aroideana' where this species is 'manipulated' by man to even produce a certain sized uniform shaped tuber that is best suited to mans marketing needs. So in nature, as Peter Boyce pointed out, the 'wild' Amorphophallus sps. that he has observed may mostly have a single leaf, but if these are brought into cultivation and placed under the conditions I outlined above, it would not and does not surprise me that a species known to have but a single leaf under 'natural' conditions would produce more than one leaf in response to the improved state of cultivation being provided by its loving owner! I hope this helps. Good Growing, Julius Boos, WPB, FLORIDA +More >>Hi Ron Each leaf has their own petiole and each leaf emerges from the tiny sheath at the base of the previous, with the primary leaf practically ruptured basally. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" To: Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > Do each of the leaves have their own petiole, or is it one petiole > branching? Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Peter C Boyce > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:58 AM > To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium > venosum > (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves > simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in > diameter > and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with > three > leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce > exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. > > Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Aroid list" > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:46 AM > Subject: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from > the > > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana > says > > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at > once)! > How > > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > > > -Ken > > >

From: "Peter C Boyce" levieux.jardin at wanadoo.fr> on 2003.08.17 at 14:10:40(10496) Dear Margret & Dietmar I don't think that is a branched petiole. I think that what you have observed is a second, separate, leaf emerging through the very narrow petiolar sheath that is present in all aroids. Peter +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > Some weeks ago, we observed on one of our Am. bulbifer > that a second petiole emerged about 4 cm above the soil > from the existing petiole. Later, this second petiole broadened > downwards, as shown on the picture. The arrow indicates > the original emerging point. Hence branching of petioles is > possible within the genus Amorphophallus and, as Wilbert > wrote to us, is also known e.g. from A. paeoniifolius and > A. glossophyllus. > > Best regards > Margret & Dietmar Kiehlmann

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.08.17 at 14:11:13(10497) Dear Margret and Dieter, I do not believe that true 'branching' can take place in any aroid. As Peter Boyce explained, new entire leaves w/ petioles are produced from a previous leaf sheath or cataphyll which is always located at the base of the previous older petiole/leaf, or in the case of some cataphylls on the apex of a dormant tuber. No aroid produces a new leaf from any area of a previous petiole except from the sheath at its base. No photo came with your posting. Good Growing, Julius +More >>Some weeks ago, we observed on one of our Am. bulbifer that a second petiole emerged about 4 cm above the soil from the existing petiole. Later, this second petiole broadened downwards, as shown on the picture. The arrow indicates the original emerging point. Hence branching of petioles is possible within the genus Amorphophallus and, as Wilbert wrote to us, is also known e.g. from A. paeoniifolius and A. glossophyllus. Best regards Margret & Dietmar Kiehlmann

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2003.08.17 at 18:24:53(10499) Dear Dietmar & Margret, I did tell you about multiple leaves but NEVER about branching petioles. That just doesn't happen in this world unless it is a "Lusus Naturae" (a freak!). Cheerio, Wilbert +More > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu > [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu]Namens Dietmar Kiehlmann > Verzonden: zondag 17 augustus 2003 13:23 > Aan: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu > Onderwerp: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > Some weeks ago, we observed on one of our Am. bulbifer > that a second petiole emerged about 4 cm above the soil > from the existing petiole. Later, this second petiole broadened > downwards, as shown on the picture. The arrow indicates > the original emerging point. Hence branching of petioles is > possible within the genus Amorphophallus and, as Wilbert > wrote to us, is also known e.g. from A. paeoniifolius and > A. glossophyllus. > > Best regards > Margret & Dietmar Kiehlmann

From: "Ron" ronlene at adelphia.net> on 2003.08.17 at 20:17:16(10500) Hi Peter, Thanks for the response. Most plants have secondary leaf buds that activate when the primary leaf is damaged or removed. It may also activate if the plant is traumatized. Usually, its part of the survival mechanism. Perhaps these plants are genetically altered, or the primary leaf is not providing adequate nutrients for the plant. Ron +More -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Peter C Boyce Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 2:18 AM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? Hi Ron Each leaf has their own petiole and each leaf emerges from the tiny sheath at the base of the previous, with the primary leaf practically ruptured basally. Pete ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > Do each of the leaves have their own petiole, or is it one petiole > branching? Ron > > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] > On Behalf Of Peter C Boyce > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 7:58 AM > To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > I can't comment with regard Amorphophallus, but I've had Typhonium > venosum > (which the literature often says is solitary leaved) with four leaves > simultaneously, the largest 1.5 m tall with a leaf blade 1 meter in > diameter > and the smallest 0.75 tall and 0.5 cm in diameter and regularly with > three > leaves simultaneously. Plants with this many leaves went on to produce > exceptionally large tubers (maximum 1.25 kg with a diameter of 30.5 cm. > > Peter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Aroid list" > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:46 AM > Subject: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > > I got two very nice Amorphophallus bulbifers earlier this year from > the > > nice people at Gardino Nursery. The Amorphophallus issue of Aroideana > says > > that A. bulbifer has solitary or paired leaves. Both of mine are now > > growing their *third* leaf (simultaneous, all three are there at > once)! > How > > unusual is that and does it have any implications? > > > > -Ken > > >

From: "Ron" ronlene at adelphia.net> on 2003.08.17 at 20:23:42(10501) I could not find the picture. Ron -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Dietmar Kiehlmann +More Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 7:23 AM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? Some weeks ago, we observed on one of our Am. bulbifer that a second petiole emerged about 4 cm above the soil from the existing petiole. Later, this second petiole broadened downwards, as shown on the picture. The arrow indicates the original emerging point. Hence branching of petioles is possible within the genus Amorphophallus and, as Wilbert wrote to us, is also known e.g. from A. paeoniifolius and A. glossophyllus. Best regards Margret & Dietmar Kiehlmann

From: Dietmar Kiehlmann Kiehlmann at gmx.de> on 2003.08.17 at 20:24:05(10502) Dear Peter, Dear Julius It?s well known to us that normally a second petiole emerges between cataphylls and the first petiole. In these cases the petioles are completely separated, at least, so far we could see this, above the soil. +More Presumably our expression ?branching? is not correct. But in our said case, the tip of the second petiole broke out of the existing petiole, 4 cm above the soil surface. We have never before observed this phenomenon in Amorphophallus. Unfortunately we didn?t photograph this in the first stage, but only one week later. Obviously it?s not possible to mail pictures via Aroid-L. If somebody is interested in this photo, we will mail it to his personal email address. Today the base of the first petiole encloses partly the second one, as usual in other aroids e.g. Alocasia. Best regards Margret & Dietmar

From: Dietmar Kiehlmann Kiehlmann at gmx.de> on 2003.08.17 at 23:07:06(10503) Dear Wilbert, of course, you never told us about branching petioles, but only about multiple leaves/petioles. We used the expression ?branching? not thinking over the correct botanical meaning. Please forgive us. +More Best regards Margret & Dietmar

From: "alan_gal at bellsouth.net" alan_galloway at bellsouth.net> on 2003.08.17 at 23:12:58(10504) Noted from moderator -- If you're interested in Margret & Dietmar's pictures, please email them directly at: Kiehlmann@gmx.de ------ +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > Dear Margret & Dietmar, > > I'd love to see the pics! > > Kirk Bowles > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dietmar Kiehlmann" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 3:24 PM > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] How many leaves?? > > > > Dear Peter, Dear Julius > > > > It's well known to us that normally a second petiole emerges > > between cataphylls and the first petiole. In these cases the petioles > > are completely separated, at least, so far we could see this, above > > the soil. > > > > Presumably our expression "branching" is not correct. > > > > But in our said case, the tip of the second petiole broke out of > > the existing petiole, 4 cm above the soil surface. We have never > > before observed this phenomenon in Amorphophallus. > > > > Unfortunately we didn't photograph this in the first stage, but > > only one week later. Obviously it's not possible to mail pictures > > via Aroid-L. If somebody is interested in this photo, we will > > mail it to his personal email address. > > > > Today the base of the first petiole encloses partly the second one, > > as usual in other aroids e.g. Alocasia. > > > > Best regards > > Margret & Dietmar > > > > > > >

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