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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
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Xanthosoma "roseum"
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From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.01.27 at 00:59:22(9887)
Dear Susan,
The only species that fits this description is Xanthosoma robustum, that
is, in my opinion, a synonim of Xanthosoma roseum. It ranges from Mexico to
Guatemala and probably even more to the south. It is widely available in
Florida as Xanthosoma sagittifolium ("malanga-blanca")!!!! In fact, I wasn?t
able to find a real Xanthosoma sagittifolium growing in Florida!!!
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More |
Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Anthurium regale and Zanthosoma roseum
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:56:33 -0800
Speaking of bigger plants (other than Anthurium) someone sent a photo for
ID of a
Zanthosoma labled 'roseum' with a man standing under the petiols and the
leaves
were HUGE and were up three times his height. I would be interested in
knowing
if that particular plant was ever ID'd and what was it and is it available
anywhere?.....but that's not to say that I don't desire seeds from
Anthurium
regale! Beautiful!
Susan Cox
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
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From: "brian williams" pugturd50 at hotmail.com> on 2003.01.27 at 23:25:56(9890)
Eduardo can you show a pic of a true Xanthosoma Sagittifolia? I would like
to see if I have one or what to be looking for. THANKS
_________________________________________________________________
| +More |
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From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.01.29 at 01:40:19(9894)
Dear Brian,
As I have said in a previous post, I will look for a picture in the web.
If I can?t find it, I will post a picture of mine.
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More |
Eduardo can you show a pic of a true Xanthosoma Sagittifolia? I would like
to see if I have one or what to be looking for. THANKS
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/featuredemail
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From: snalice at cnmnetwork.com on 2003.01.29 at 10:37:45(9897)
Eduardo,
Thank you for that information. I appologize if no one is interested in this subject, but I appreciate the
help given.
| +More | |
Brian,
Here is a photo of X. sagittifolia and others that may be synonomous:
Xanthosoma sagittifolia:
http://www.cannaluver.com/XanthasomaSagitifolia.html?1014623972990
Xanthosoma robustum:
http://digitalis.mobot.org/mrsid/bin/mosid/mosid.pl?client1&image=MOA-09123_
001.sid&title=Xanthosoma+robustum&desc=Leaves+and+inflorescence.&tropicos_id104679&ssdp 354543&vtCROAT+
63262
Xanthosoma robustum. To me, the leaves look too collected to be the plant in the black and white photo of X.
roseum, but this is a younger plant? A leaf photo:
http://digitalis.mobot.org/mrsid/bin/mosid/mosid.pl?client1&image=MOA-09101_
001.sid&title=Xanthosoma+robustum&desc=Leaf&tropicos_id104679&ssdp102321&vtCROAT+78822
Xanthosoma roseum is refered to on one site (though it doesn't obviously say which source this information
comes from) as 'rosey malanga' and 'elephant ear'. Xanthosoma sagittifolium in various cultivated edible forms
is refered to as 'tiquisque blanco and tiquisque colorado'....in Costa Rica. Eduardo, you mention that the
true form of X. sattifolium it is also refered to as 'malanga-blanca'. I'm not sure what all this means but M.
H. Grayum says this in his description of Xanthosoma (You'll have to scroll down to Xanthosoma where he
describes X. dealbatum; X. robustum; X. sagittifolium) site follows:
"Xanthosoma robustum is characterized by its erect, aerial stems, glaucous foliage, naked posterior leaf ribs,
and uniformly greenish inner spathe tube surface. The infls. are the largest of any CR Xanthosoma sp. This sp.
is most similar to X. undipes (with non-glaucous foliage and usually red spathe tubes) and X. sagittifolium
(acaulescent and usually with winged posterior ribs). Indeed, the plants treated here as X. robustum may prove
to represent merely robust individuals of X. sagittifolium."
http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/research/treat/pistia.html
X robustum and X. sagittifolium may end up being the same plant, but how about X. roseum because he also says:
"Because the taxonomy and nomenclature of the cult. Xanthosoma are in such chaos, a single, variable sp. is
here recognized, and the oldest available name is applied. Various cultivars are represented in CR, e.g.,
tiquisque blanco and tiquisque colorado. Some names may prove to be incorrecly synonymized here, such as
Xanthosoma roseum, typified by a Costa Rican collection".
So I guess it's X. sagittifolium that really I'm looking for? Wasn't the black and white photo taken in Costa
Rica? I'd like to know more about the text book that included that photo if anyone knows. Brian, if you find
one of these before I do, I'm available to sell to.
Thanks Eduardo, Michael, and Brian,
Susan Cox
1/27/03 3:25:56 PM, "brian williams" wrote:
>
>Eduardo can you show a pic of a true Xanthosoma Sagittifolia? I would like
>to see if I have one or what to be looking for. THANKS
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
>http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
>
>
>
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From: Tom Croat Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2003.01.29 at 22:38:53(9901)
Dear Eduardo:
I have finally concluded that Xanthosoma robustum is widespread in
Mexico. I am treating it in my Flora del Bajia which is an area made up
partly of Colima, Guerrero and Michacan. It also ranges into Guatemala (and
probably all the way to Costa Rica according to Mike Grayum).
Are you saying that X. roseum is an older name and that it should take
precedence? We have material in our herbarium called X. roseum cultivated
in Hawaii which is not the same species (though I am uncertain of the
correctness of the determination).
Tom
| +More |
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:59 AM
To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: [aroid-l] Xanthosoma "roseum"
Dear Susan,
The only species that fits this description is Xanthosoma robustum, that
is, in my opinion, a synonim of Xanthosoma roseum. It ranges from Mexico to
Guatemala and probably even more to the south. It is widely available in
Florida as Xanthosoma sagittifolium ("malanga-blanca")!!!! In fact, I wasn?t
able to find a real Xanthosoma sagittifolium growing in Florida!!!
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
>From: snalice@cnmnetwork.com
>Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
>To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Anthurium regale and Zanthosoma roseum
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:56:33 -0800
>
>Speaking of bigger plants (other than Anthurium) someone sent a photo for
>ID of a
>Zanthosoma labled 'roseum' with a man standing under the petiols and the
>leaves
>were HUGE and were up three times his height. I would be interested in
>knowing
>if that particular plant was ever ID'd and what was it and is it available
>anywhere?.....but that's not to say that I don't desire seeds from
>Anthurium
>regale! Beautiful!
>
>Susan Cox
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
|
|
From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.01.30 at 00:01:36(9902)
Dear Susan,
Well, I couldn?t access the other pictures (a weird error message
appeared) but the "Xanthosoma sagittifolium" you showed is also X. robustum!
Believe, Xanthosoma sagiitifolium (if it really cultivated in USA) is pretty
rare!!!! In Lorenzi?s book "The tropical plants of Burle-Marx" there are
both species featured and I checked the ID personally, but the angle of the
picture is not good enough to show exactly the differences.
Grayum?s statement on Flora of CR is very accurate, and I agree with him
in almost anything. However, based on my experience cultivating those
beasts, Xanthosoma sagittifolium will never turn into X. robustum, even when
you allow it to grow fully. I have started both species, side by side, at
the same juvenile state, and they get different with time. On the top of
this, young plants are different too!
Anyhow, I do believe that Xanthosoma sagittifolium is a domesticated
"species" and it is possible that the original stock were gathered from
something within same evolutionary lineage of modern X. robustum. It seems
to have been selected from some neotenic individuals of the X. robustum
complex, because young specimens keep their starch-rich cormels instead of
the spongy adult stem. Even today, only young individuals of X. robustum
(malanga blanca) are harvested as food.
I have an article on cultivated Xanthosoma that I am preparing to be
published in Aroideana, with pictures of most cultivated species. I am
planning to release it this year, so I think a few things will get clear.
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More | |
Eduardo,
Thank you for that information. I appologize if no one is interested in
this subject, but I appreciate the
help given.
Brian,
Here is a photo of X. sagittifolia and others that may be synonomous:
Xanthosoma sagittifolia:
http://www.cannaluver.com/XanthasomaSagitifolia.html?1014623972990
Xanthosoma robustum:
http://digitalis.mobot.org/mrsid/bin/mosid/mosid.pl?client1&image=MOA-09123_
001.sid&title=Xanthosoma+robustum&desc=Leaves+and+inflorescence.&tropicos_id104679&ssdp 354543&vtCROAT+
63262
Xanthosoma robustum. To me, the leaves look too collected to be the plant
in the black and white photo of X.
roseum, but this is a younger plant? A leaf photo:
http://digitalis.mobot.org/mrsid/bin/mosid/mosid.pl?client1&image=MOA-09101_
001.sid&title=Xanthosoma+robustum&desc=Leaf&tropicos_id104679&ssdp102321&vtCROAT+78822
Xanthosoma roseum is refered to on one site (though it doesn't obviously
say which source this information
comes from) as 'rosey malanga' and 'elephant ear'. Xanthosoma
sagittifolium in various cultivated edible forms
is refered to as 'tiquisque blanco and tiquisque colorado'....in Costa
Rica. Eduardo, you mention that the
true form of X. sattifolium it is also refered to as 'malanga-blanca'. I'm
not sure what all this means but M.
H. Grayum says this in his description of Xanthosoma (You'll have to scroll
down to Xanthosoma where he
describes X. dealbatum; X. robustum; X. sagittifolium) site follows:
"Xanthosoma robustum is characterized by its erect, aerial stems, glaucous
foliage, naked posterior leaf ribs,
and uniformly greenish inner spathe tube surface. The infls. are the
largest of any CR Xanthosoma sp. This sp.
is most similar to X. undipes (with non-glaucous foliage and usually red
spathe tubes) and X. sagittifolium
(acaulescent and usually with winged posterior ribs). Indeed, the plants
treated here as X. robustum may prove
to represent merely robust individuals of X. sagittifolium."
http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/research/treat/pistia.html
X robustum and X. sagittifolium may end up being the same plant, but how
about X. roseum because he also says:
"Because the taxonomy and nomenclature of the cult. Xanthosoma are in such
chaos, a single, variable sp. is
here recognized, and the oldest available name is applied. Various
cultivars are represented in CR, e.g.,
tiquisque blanco and tiquisque colorado. Some names may prove to be
incorrecly synonymized here, such as
Xanthosoma roseum, typified by a Costa Rican collection".
So I guess it's X. sagittifolium that really I'm looking for? Wasn't the
black and white photo taken in Costa
Rica? I'd like to know more about the text book that included that photo
if anyone knows. Brian, if you find
one of these before I do, I'm available to sell to.
Thanks Eduardo, Michael, and Brian,
Susan Cox
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
|
|
From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.01.30 at 00:18:37(9903)
Dear Friends,
Just a word and a quick note which I feel sure Eduardo will confirm re: the
cultivated Xanthosomas---CONFUSION.
At the moment here in S. Florida there are several Xanthosoma vars. being
sold as food CHEAP and by the lb. at Winn Dixie, Publix, and other food
stores. There is the 'white' Xanthosoma grown in Miami, dear to us
Trinidadians heart because of its special texture when cooked. Then there
is another labled as coming from Costa Rica that had brownish 'scales'
covering the growing tip that has a SLIGHT lilac 'tint' at the base of the
scales. Then there is the 'red co co' sold mainly in Jamaican stores at a
substantially higher price. Then there is the rarer yellow-fleshed one
sold in Hispanic stores, said to be a 'special' one used seasonally.
In an attempt to TRY to clear up some of the confusion surrounding these
plants, I am starting to buy and cultivate the different ones, my hope is to
grow them to flowering and photograph the blooms, tubers, etc. to assist
Eduardo in his research on this problematic group. There are also number
of Colocasia var. tubers sold in some stores, the eddoes, and many (at least
three) vars. of dasheen or taro.
Meanwhile I suggest that we all ignore all these older publications like the
one quoted by our Susan (below) which vary a LOT in what they say, and all
or most freely admit that they know not what they say, adding to the
confusion! All the ones I mention above make BEAUTIFUL plants, so just
grow and enjoy until someone like Eduardo can put names to this mish-mash of
plants grown as food!
Susan, there is a LOT of interest in these plants! Note that the Mayan
word for Xanthosoma is written as 'tiquisque', but I have also seen it
written and also pronounced 'qi-ques-qe', so even this is not stable.
Good Growing!
Julius
| +More | |
>>Eduardo,
Thank you for that information. I appologize if no one is interested in
this subject, but I appreciate the
help given.
Brian,
Here is a photo of X. sagittifolia and others that may be synonomous:
Xanthosoma sagittifolia:
http://www.cannaluver.com/XanthasomaSagitifolia.html?1014623972990
Xanthosoma robustum:
http://digitalis.mobot.org/mrsid/bin/mosid/mosid.pl?client1&image=MOA-091
23_
001.sid&title=Xanthosoma+robustum&desc=Leaves+and+inflorescence.&tropicos_id
104679&ssdp 354543&vtCROAT+
63262
Xanthosoma robustum. To me, the leaves look too collected to be the plant in
the black and white photo of X.
roseum, but this is a younger plant? A leaf photo:
http://digitalis.mobot.org/mrsid/bin/mosid/mosid.pl?client1&image=MOA-091
01_
001.sid&title=Xanthosoma+robustum&desc=Leaf&tropicos_id104679&ssdp1023
21&vtCROAT+78822
Xanthosoma roseum is refered to on one site (though it doesn't obviously say
which source this information
comes from) as 'rosey malanga' and 'elephant ear'. Xanthosoma sagittifolium
in various cultivated edible forms
is refered to as 'tiquisque blanco and tiquisque colorado'....in Costa Rica.
Eduardo, you mention that the
true form of X. sattifolium it is also refered to as 'malanga-blanca'. I'm
not sure what all this means but M.
H. Grayum says this in his description of Xanthosoma (You'll have to scroll
down to Xanthosoma where he
describes X. dealbatum; X. robustum; X. sagittifolium) site follows:
"Xanthosoma robustum is characterized by its erect, aerial stems, glaucous
foliage, naked posterior leaf ribs,
and uniformly greenish inner spathe tube surface. The infls. are the largest
of any CR Xanthosoma sp. This sp.
is most similar to X. undipes (with non-glaucous foliage and usually red
spathe tubes) and X. sagittifolium
(acaulescent and usually with winged posterior ribs). Indeed, the plants
treated here as X. robustum may prove
to represent merely robust individuals of X. sagittifolium."
http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/research/treat/pistia.html
X robustum and X. sagittifolium may end up being the same plant, but how
about X. roseum because he also says:
"Because the taxonomy and nomenclature of the cult. Xanthosoma are in such
chaos, a single, variable sp. is
here recognized, and the oldest available name is applied. Various cultivars
are represented in CR, e.g.,
tiquisque blanco and tiquisque colorado. Some names may prove to be
incorrecly synonymized here, such as
Xanthosoma roseum, typified by a Costa Rican collection".
So I guess it's X. sagittifolium that really I'm looking for? Wasn't the
black and white photo taken in Costa
Rica? I'd like to know more about the text book that included that photo if
anyone knows. Brian, if you find
one of these before I do, I'm available to sell to.
Thanks Eduardo, Michael, and Brian,
Susan Cox
1/27/03 3:25:56 PM, "brian williams" wrote:
>
>Eduardo can you show a pic of a true Xanthosoma Sagittifolia? I would like
>to see if I have one or what to be looking for. THANKS
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
>http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
>
>
>
|
|
From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.01.30 at 17:17:07(9904)
Dear Tom,
Yes, X. robustum is the only big Xanthosoma widespread in Mexico. I have
seen it from Mexico City to Chiapas and probably it ranges down to Costa
Rica. Xanthosoma roseum is not the older name. Xanthosoma robustum were
described in 1853, whereas X. roseum was described in 1858. I am treating
them as synonims, since the stated differences between them are within the
variation range of X. robustum. Many species were determined as X. roseum,
only because they have a pinkish spathe or a pinkish sterile portion of
spadix. The feature is known for X. robustum, X. blandum, X. mafaffa and X.
sagittifolia, so it is not a good diagnostic feature.
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More | |
Dear Eduardo:
I have finally concluded that Xanthosoma robustum is widespread in
Mexico. I am treating it in my Flora del Bajia which is an area made up
partly of Colima, Guerrero and Michacan. It also ranges into Guatemala
(and
probably all the way to Costa Rica according to Mike Grayum).
Are you saying that X. roseum is an older name and that it should take
precedence? We have material in our herbarium called X. roseum cultivated
in Hawaii which is not the same species (though I am uncertain of the
correctness of the determination).
Tom
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:59 AM
To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: [aroid-l] Xanthosoma "roseum"
Dear Susan,
The only species that fits this description is Xanthosoma robustum,
that
is, in my opinion, a synonim of Xanthosoma roseum. It ranges from Mexico to
Guatemala and probably even more to the south. It is widely available in
Florida as Xanthosoma sagittifolium ("malanga-blanca")!!!! In fact, I
wasn?t
able to find a real Xanthosoma sagittifolium growing in Florida!!!
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
>From: snalice@cnmnetwork.com
>Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
>To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
>Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Anthurium regale and Zanthosoma roseum
>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:56:33 -0800
>
>Speaking of bigger plants (other than Anthurium) someone sent a photo for
>ID of a
>Zanthosoma labled 'roseum' with a man standing under the petiols and the
>leaves
>were HUGE and were up three times his height. I would be interested in
>knowing
>if that particular plant was ever ID'd and what was it and is it
available
>anywhere?.....but that's not to say that I don't desire seeds from
>Anthurium
>regale! Beautiful!
>
>Susan Cox
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/virus
|
|
From: Tom Croat Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2003.01.31 at 20:16:44(9908)
Dear Eduardo: I agree that X. roseum is likely to be a synonym. It will be
good to get rid of the name. Frankly I have never seen a spathe that was
pinkish in any Xanthosoma, certainly not at anthesis but the sterile male
flowers of X. robustum are often pinkish.
Tom
| +More |
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 5:17 PM
To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Xanthosoma "roseum"
Dear Tom,
Yes, X. robustum is the only big Xanthosoma widespread in Mexico. I have
seen it from Mexico City to Chiapas and probably it ranges down to Costa
Rica. Xanthosoma roseum is not the older name. Xanthosoma robustum were
described in 1853, whereas X. roseum was described in 1858. I am treating
them as synonims, since the stated differences between them are within the
variation range of X. robustum. Many species were determined as X. roseum,
only because they have a pinkish spathe or a pinkish sterile portion of
spadix. The feature is known for X. robustum, X. blandum, X. mafaffa and X.
sagittifolia, so it is not a good diagnostic feature.
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
>
>Dear Eduardo:
>
> I have finally concluded that Xanthosoma robustum is widespread in
>Mexico. I am treating it in my Flora del Bajia which is an area made up
>partly of Colima, Guerrero and Michacan. It also ranges into Guatemala
>(and
>probably all the way to Costa Rica according to Mike Grayum).
>Are you saying that X. roseum is an older name and that it should take
>precedence? We have material in our herbarium called X. roseum cultivated
>in Hawaii which is not the same species (though I am uncertain of the
>correctness of the determination).
>
>Tom
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Eduardo Goncalves [mailto:edggon@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:59 AM
>To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
>Subject: [aroid-l] Xanthosoma "roseum"
>
>
>Dear Susan,
>
> The only species that fits this description is Xanthosoma robustum,
>that
>is, in my opinion, a synonim of Xanthosoma roseum. It ranges from Mexico to
>Guatemala and probably even more to the south. It is widely available in
>Florida as Xanthosoma sagittifolium ("malanga-blanca")!!!! In fact, I
>wasn?t
>
>able to find a real Xanthosoma sagittifolium growing in Florida!!!
>
> Very best wishes,
>
> Eduardo.
>
>
>
> >From: snalice@cnmnetwork.com
> >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
> >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Anthurium regale and Zanthosoma roseum
> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:56:33 -0800
> >
> >Speaking of bigger plants (other than Anthurium) someone sent a photo for
> >ID of a
> >Zanthosoma labled 'roseum' with a man standing under the petiols and the
> >leaves
> >were HUGE and were up three times his height. I would be interested in
> >knowing
> >if that particular plant was ever ID'd and what was it and is it
>available
> >anywhere?.....but that's not to say that I don't desire seeds from
> >Anthurium
> >regale! Beautiful!
> >
> >Susan Cox
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/junkmail
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?pagežatures/virus
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