THE TROPICAL RAIN FOREST COLLECTING TEAM DREAM

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.04.30 at 02:25:34(6310) Dear Aroid Collecting Friends, During a nightmare about gigantic Amorphophallus ravishing my Peace Lilies I had a wondrous Dream. I will tell you the story! It was that I was in Team that had gone to this wonderful Jungle Place never visited before, a bit like Roraima with waterfalls and swampy rivers, and we found huge numbers of new kinds of the amazing plants that we all love. In our Team there were also a few Ornamental Fish Collectors, Butterfly, Moth and Bug Enthusiasts, Snake lovers, Bird Fanciers and Anglers that we knew before or got quickly to know. They were all wowing about in the water, the mud, the trees and the glades. It was a great time, and it was a place where the Government people liked us being there as Naturalists and willingly gave us permits to take back home some of the things we had found. Everybody mucked in, and it was enormous fun. It was much like I used to do in the woods of Somerset near where I was borne but hotter with everything so much more brilliant and bigger like I'd always dreamed about before. An Aladdins Cave of colour and fragrances, surprises everywhere. And although we split into various little groups we all shared what we found. Because there were a lot of us it made everything cheaper and allowed us to stay even longer. Because it was such an important Team Organisation, we got all the support we needed from the locals and the officials. In the dream it became a regular thing several times a year going to different places each time the same way. People in the Botanic Gardens sometimes came and they advised us each time as to the best and most worthwhile places to go so that they could share in what we found. It was easier for them too I thought during the dream how amazing it was to have teams of keen Naturalists joining together to do their collecting. Far far better and more efficient than people going in ones and two's uncertainly to places on DIY trips and collecting only the plants they want when people back home might like so many things that didn't interest. And maybe even better than some of the ecotourist holidays with the same old find a monkey itineraries. In the dream with so many eyes and ears sharing everybody got far more of what they wanted and together the Group could look for everything that those who stayed at home wanted as well. Then I woke up and thought about it. I wonder if we could get together with other eGroups and go on expeditions like in the dream to help everyone whether they came or not. The Botanic Gardens, and Animal Collection specialists would advise us and suggest the best places to go and even if they didn't come along we could look out for everything they were interested in. We might even get grants from Horticulture or Universities or Government agencies or even Airlines if we became THE Tropical Rain Forest Study and Collecting Group? Just a dream which we maybe could come true. I was thinking of spending the Northern Winter in Tropical Asia on a DIY trip but I would be just as happy to help organise something anywhere useful and best for everybody and maybe help film and sound record it. Or do anything as part of a team. That is if fellow members have keen eyes for new Peace Lilies. Are there enough people out there to make a team for the first of many tropical wonder trips? If so when, where and what for? Perhaps the people who are very experienced in Jungling could advise? Would you like to send any suggestions to Ron Greenman in time for Winter 2001 travel, all offers of special expert or general help appreciated. Or perhaps you know of an expedition of people with very varied interests who are going already. I'm cautious about commercial "Nature Tours" there are so many and maybe some are more suited for people who are just Nature Spectators rather than growers as well? +More Whether the Team comes true, the Dream was great. Cheers Ron

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2001.04.30 at 04:57:51(6312) Dear Ron, I have a different story to tell. It was that I was in the same wonderful jungle place, but it was being deforested as fast as your eyes blink. There were too kind of Government people: Those that just don?t care about you (if you keep paying the taxes) and those that think you are some kind of enemy. If you are foreign, they may think you are stealing their plants to produce bioactive drugs that will be sold back to the natives from the same country for expensive prices. If you are a native yourself, they may think that you are collecting plants to sell to the foreign labs, so the suspicious is the same. They protect the plants from being collected, but everybody can destroy them! You can go collect without any authorization, but you will be arrested if someone opens the mouth. If you ask for the authorization, they will ask you a mountain of paper, including a detailed project (saying exactly WHAT you will collect and HOW MUCH of each species). You fill all the forms and it may take five to six months to have an authorization in your hands. It has to be done by all the participants of the Team. Remember: To bring plants (or animals, or rocks, or whatever) back to your country, you will need a different authorization? Ok, lets continue our ?dream?. There are also two kinds of local people: those that think you are completely crazy (wise people) and those that want to steal your expensive camera. Both kinds are poor and are probably suffering from many of the ?Third World Diseases?, like Cholera, Schistosomosis and Yellow Fever. Did I mention Malaria? Well, it is almost impossible to have all that group together, because some of the specialists have their permission denied. Some only had permissions for the next year. Some just gave off. There are also the people from the narcotraffic, which will shot you if they think you are from the Federal Police. Did I mention the guerrilleros? Yes, they will kidnap you as a vengeance against the Capitalism that you represent. Usually, they are even worse than the narcotrafficants, because they won?t accept money! Does it seem like a nightmare? Oh boy, welcome to the real world!!! +More Collecting plants in the 21st Century isn?t that easy. I know I seemed somewhat negative-minded, but I am only being candid about the facts. I have to face these problems everyday here. I really think it would be great to have such a group and I would love to be a part of it. However the reality is much harder than the expedition of your dreams. The plants we usually find in the field worth well the previous "Via Crucis", but the price is too high yet. Cheers, Eduardo (an aroid-lover from Brazil that thinks that Helicodiceros and Spathiphyllum are equal in mystery and beauty ? stinky and fragrant are just human sensorial illusions) P.S. Tomorrow I am leaving to the field again! :o) Try to understand those crazy botanists... >From: "Ron Iles" Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of >list AROID-L Subject: THE TROPICAL RAIN FOREST COLLECTING TEAM DREAM Date: >Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:25:32 -0500 (CDT) > >Dear Aroid Collecting Friends, > >During a nightmare about gigantic Amorphophallus ravishing my Peace Lilies >I had a wondrous Dream. I will tell you the story! > >It was that I was in Team that had gone to this wonderful Jungle Place >never visited before, a bit like Roraima with waterfalls and swampy rivers, >and we found huge numbers of new kinds of the amazing plants that we all >love. In our Team there were also a few Ornamental Fish Collectors, >Butterfly, Moth and Bug Enthusiasts, Snake lovers, Bird Fanciers and >Anglers that we knew before or got quickly to know. They were all wowing >about in the water, the mud, the trees and the glades. It was a great time, >and it was a place where the Government people liked us being there as >Naturalists and willingly gave us permits to take back home some of the >things we had found. Everybody mucked in, and it was enormous fun. It was >much like I used to do in the woods of Somerset near where I was borne but >hotter with everything so much more brilliant and bigger like I'd always >dreamed about before. An Aladdins Cave of colour and fragrances, surprises >everywhere. And although we split into various little groups we all shared >what we found. Because there were a lot of us it made everything cheaper >and allowed us to stay even longer. Because it was such an important Team >Organisation, we got all the support we needed from the locals and the >officials. In the dream it became a regular thing several times a year >going to different places each time the same way. People in the Botanic >Gardens sometimes came and they advised us each time as to the best and >most worthwhile places to go so that they could share in what we found. It >was easier for them too I thought during the dream how amazing it was to >have teams of keen Naturalists joining together to do their collecting. Far >far better and more efficient than people going in ones and two's >uncertainly to places on DIY trips and collecting only the plants they want >when people back home might like so many things that didn't interest. And >maybe even better than some of the ecotourist holidays with the same old >find a monkey itineraries. In the dream with so many eyes and ears sharing >everybody got far more of what they wanted and together the Group could >look for everything that those who stayed at home wanted as well. > >Then I woke up and thought about it. I wonder if we could get together with >other eGroups and go on expeditions like in the dream to help everyone >whether they came or not. The Botanic Gardens, and Animal Collection >specialists would advise us and suggest the best places to go and even if >they didn't come along we could look out for everything they were >interested in. We might even get grants from Horticulture or Universities >or Government agencies or even Airlines if we became THE Tropical Rain >Forest Study and Collecting Group? > >Just a dream which we maybe could come true. I was thinking of spending the >Northern Winter in Tropical Asia on a DIY trip but I would be just as happy >to help organise something anywhere useful and best for everybody and maybe >help film and sound record it. Or do anything as part of a team. That is if >fellow members have keen eyes for new Peace Lilies. > >Are there enough people out there to make a team for the first of many >tropical wonder trips? If so when, where and what for? Perhaps the people >who are very experienced in Jungling could advise? Would you like to send >any suggestions to Ron Greenman in time for Winter 2001 travel, all offers >of special expert or general help appreciated. Or perhaps you know of an >expedition of people with very varied interests who are going already. I'm >cautious about commercial "Nature Tours" there are so many and maybe some >are more suited for people who are just Nature Spectators rather than >growers as well? > >Whether the Team comes true, the Dream was great. > >Cheers > >Ron > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

From: Neil Carroll zzamia at hargray.com> on 2001.04.30 at 14:35:39(6318) I have been to the jungles many times (9) and my experiences much more parallel Ron's Dream than they do Eduardo's Nightmare.......Eduardo...if I were you I would move. Neil +More -

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2001.04.30 at 16:13:14(6325) Neil, Have you been in South America after the middle of the 90?s? I don?t mean hyper-protected excursions for foreign tourists, but real field work. If you did it so, and still have the same opinion, tell me where you have been and I will go there as soon as possible!!! Unfortunately, I can?t move. My plants, my lovely plants, are also living here with me. There are no Spathicarpoids, Xanthosomae and Zomicarpoids in Australasia. How could I live without them? +More Cheers, Eduardo. >From: Neil Carroll >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: THE TROPICAL RAIN FOREST COLLECTING TEAM DREAM >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:35:37 -0500 (CDT) > >I have been to the jungles many times (9) and my experiences much more >parallel Ron's Dream than they do Eduardo's Nightmare.......Eduardo...if I >were you I would move. > >Neil >- > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

From: "Dany Hervelle" bs246466 at skynet.be> on 2001.04.30 at 19:19:17(6330) Hello Ron and list! I am sure that your dream is like the dream of most of people who like nature!If this kind of thing may be real,sure i will sign for it!I have dreaming lot of time about this...Of course,lonely it is not possible for me,but if something serious (but not too..) may +More emerge from your initiative Ron,it may be great!I ever say to my wife that i didn't want to die before have see the real rainforest.I will have the chance to say a day Amazonia,for his great tresor of anthurium and marantaceae,and Borneo and Papua new guinea for the tresor of alocasia that they are regorging!But all of them also for the beauty of nature.And sure that if i go there i will be back with not only photograph! Is it may be only a drem...? Good growin' to all Dany Hervelle

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.05.01 at 14:29:43(6340) Dear Eduardo, Thanks for stopping the dream become a living nightmare. So its back to Thailand and Bali unless they too become no-nos. One does not realise just how the hugely the problems of getting wild collecting in Tropical Americas have escalated over the past two decades. Unless I can get residents of their indigenous areas somehow to send me wild Spathiphyllum then maybe I'll go with the tide and like other dedicated Aroiders grow Amorphophallus and other fragrant plants from safer parts. There seem to be so many available already in cultivation . That will applaud your salutory reminder to me that both Peace Lilies and giant phallic symbols have mystery and beauty. But my horrendous thrust to get a comprehensive Spathiphyllum pool here is far more difficult than in the 80's. If it is ever the embryo dream is to become reality I would welcome as much exchange as I can possibly get. Please, please, no matter how "common" do you have ANY indigenous or other Spaths that I could beg, buy or exchange and which you could send even without health cert (I can get special permission here probably as I did in UK)? Else I will go and revel in my love of Tropical luxuriance in SE Asia which is one of the places people with a variety of motives have suggested I should go..... ! What specially should I look out for there to bring back for others? My #1 interests are aquatic plants,"aquarium" fishes and terrestrial Arthropods. Thank you for your wry realism and may you long survive against the odds in trying to safeguard natural diversity. Great to hear from Brazil. Please, do you know good Collections of Aroids including Spaths in Brazil that I could (safely) visit etc? Cheers Ron +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 5:58 AM Subject: Re: THE TROPICAL RAIN FOREST COLLECTING TEAM DREAM Dear Ron, I have a different story to tell. It was that I was in the same wonderful jungle place, but it was being deforested as fast as your eyes blink. There were too kind of Government people: Those that just don't care about you (if you keep paying the taxes) and those that think you are some kind of enemy. If you are foreign, they may think you are stealing their plants to produce bioactive drugs that will be sold back to the natives from the same country for expensive prices. If you are a native yourself, they may think that you are collecting plants to sell to the foreign labs, so the suspicious is the same. They protect the plants from being collected, but everybody can destroy them! You can go collect without any authorization, but you will be arrested if someone opens the mouth. If you ask for the authorization, they will ask you a mountain of paper, including a detailed project (saying exactly WHAT you will collect and HOW MUCH of each species). You fill all the forms and it may take five to six months to have an authorization in your hands. It has to be done by all the participants of the Team. Remember: To bring plants (or animals, or rocks, or whatever) back to your country, you will need a different authorization. Ok, lets continue our "dream". There are also two kinds of local people: those that think you are completely crazy (wise people) and those that want to steal your expensive camera. Both kinds are poor and are probably suffering from many of the "Third World Diseases", like Cholera, Schistosomosis and Yellow Fever. Did I mention Malaria? Well, it is almost impossible to have all that group together, because some of the specialists have their permission denied. Some only had permissions for the next year. Some just gave off. There are also the people from the narcotraffic, which will shot you if they think you are from the Federal Police. Did I mention the guerrilleros? Yes, they will kidnap you as a vengeance against the Capitalism that you represent. Usually, they are even worse than the narcotrafficants, because they won?t accept money! Does it seem like a nightmare? Oh boy, welcome to the real world!!! Collecting plants in the 21st Century isn't that easy. I know I seemed somewhat negative-minded, but I am only being candid about the facts. I have to face these problems everyday here. I really think it would be great to have such a group and I would love to be a part of it. However the reality is much harder than the expedition of your dreams. The plants we usually find in the field worth well the previous "Via Crucis", but the price is too high yet. Cheers, Eduardo (an aroid-lover from Brazil that thinks that Helicodiceros and Spathiphyllum are equal in mystery and beauty - stinky and fragrant are just human sensorial illusions) P.S. Tomorrow I am leaving to the field again! :o) Try to understand those crazy botanists... >From: "Ron Iles" Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of >list AROID-L Subject: THE TROPICAL RAIN FOREST COLLECTING TEAM DREAM Date: >Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:25:32 -0500 (CDT) > >Dear Aroid Collecting Friends, > >During a nightmare about gigantic Amorphophallus ravishing my Peace Lilies >I had a wondrous Dream. I will tell you the story! > >It was that I was in Team that had gone to this wonderful Jungle Place >never visited before, a bit like Roraima with waterfalls and swampy rivers, >and we found huge numbers of new kinds of the amazing plants that we all >love. In our Team there were also a few Ornamental Fish Collectors, >Butterfly, Moth and Bug Enthusiasts, Snake lovers, Bird Fanciers and >Anglers that we knew before or got quickly to know. They were all wowing >about in the water, the mud, the trees and the glades. It was a great time, >and it was a place where the Government people liked us being there as >Naturalists and willingly gave us permits to take back home some of the >things we had found. Everybody mucked in, and it was enormous fun. It was >much like I used to do in the woods of Somerset near where I was borne but >hotter with everything so much more brilliant and bigger like I'd always >dreamed about before. An Aladdins Cave of colour and fragrances, surprises >everywhere. And although we split into various little groups we all shared >what we found. Because there were a lot of us it made everything cheaper >and allowed us to stay even longer. Because it was such an important Team >Organisation, we got all the support we needed from the locals and the >officials. In the dream it became a regular thing several times a year >going to different places each time the same way. People in the Botanic >Gardens sometimes came and they advised us each time as to the best and >most worthwhile places to go so that they could share in what we found. It >was easier for them too I thought during the dream how amazing it was to >have teams of keen Naturalists joining together to do their collecting. Far >far better and more efficient than people going in ones and two's >uncertainly to places on DIY trips and collecting only the plants they want >when people back home might like so many things that didn't interest. And >maybe even better than some of the ecotourist holidays with the same old >find a monkey itineraries. In the dream with so many eyes and ears sharing >everybody got far more of what they wanted and together the Group could >look for everything that those who stayed at home wanted as well. > >Then I woke up and thought about it. I wonder if we could get together with >other eGroups and go on expeditions like in the dream to help everyone >whether they came or not. The Botanic Gardens, and Animal Collection >specialists would advise us and suggest the best places to go and even if >they didn't come along we could look out for everything they were >interested in. We might even get grants from Horticulture or Universities >or Government agencies or even Airlines if we became THE Tropical Rain >Forest Study and Collecting Group? > >Just a dream which we maybe could come true. I was thinking of spending the >Northern Winter in Tropical Asia on a DIY trip but I would be just as happy >to help organise something anywhere useful and best for everybody and maybe >help film and sound record it. Or do anything as part of a team. That is if >fellow members have keen eyes for new Peace Lilies. > >Are there enough people out there to make a team for the first of many >tropical wonder trips? If so when, where and what for? Perhaps the people >who are very experienced in Jungling could advise? Would you like to send >any suggestions to Ron Greenman in time for Winter 2001 travel, all offers >of special expert or general help appreciated. Or perhaps you know of an >expedition of people with very varied interests who are going already. I'm >cautious about commercial "Nature Tours" there are so many and maybe some >are more suited for people who are just Nature Spectators rather than >growers as well? > >Whether the Team comes true, the Dream was great. > >Cheers > >Ron > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

From: "Adao Pereira" miguelporto at mail.telepac.pt> on 2001.05.01 at 21:04:55(6344) Hello Dany and all! Oh yes. If you like the Maranthaceae I strongly advise you to go to the Americas... you can't imagine what I've seen in Costa Rica. It's a very easy country to go, we had no problems at all, and I even collected a few living plants that I brought to Portugal, aswell as many seeds (mainly Calatheas and Heliconias). +More Do you imagine forests of giant Calatheas and Heliconias... and the giant Anthurium salvinii growing on the trees... and forests of giant horsetails... and trees growing *under* the dense cover of epiphytic orchids and bromeliads... all this and much more I've seen and touched. But Costa Rica is an easy country. What I really want is to go to Papua New Guinea. Has anyone gone there? Come on, share your Tropical Experiences! Again concerning Tanzania - very nice, I will arrive right on the day of the eclipse! But what aroids should I look there in Tanzania? I have plenty of time! Does Anchomanes giganteus grow there? See you all, Miguel

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.05.02 at 02:44:54(6352) Hi Miguel! Thank you for your kind positive comments. I am thinking of Costa Rica but everybody tells me Thailand the Land of Smiles and a colleague here endorses this. CR for Spaths and Marants and Thailand for no Spaths, no Marants but SMILES, VERY difficult. Are they actually still cannibals in Papua New Guinea because if they eat me they might get Irish BSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More helpings later. With smiles Ron +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 10:05 PM Subject: Re: THE TROPICAL RAIN FOREST COLLECTING TEAM DREAM | Hello Dany and all! | | Oh yes. If you like the Maranthaceae I strongly advise you to go to the | Americas... you can't imagine what I've seen in Costa Rica. It's a very easy | country to go, we had no problems at all, and I even collected a few living | plants that I brought to Portugal, aswell as many seeds (mainly Calatheas | and Heliconias). | Do you imagine forests of giant Calatheas and Heliconias... and the giant | Anthurium salvinii growing on the trees... and forests of giant | horsetails... and trees growing *under* the dense cover of epiphytic orchids | and bromeliads... all this and much more I've seen and touched. | But Costa Rica is an easy country. What I really want is to go to Papua New | Guinea. Has anyone gone there? Come on, share your Tropical Experiences! | | Again concerning Tanzania - very nice, I will arrive right on the day of the | eclipse! | But what aroids should I look there in Tanzania? I have plenty of time! | Does Anchomanes giganteus grow there? | | See you all, | Miguel | | | |

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