A. titanum ???

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.03.31 at 21:54:57(4289) Dear Paul, I read with MUCH interest your posting where you reported to the GREAT surprise of many growers of this normally difficult species your sucess in growing and flowering it under seemingly VERY adverse conditions, I even forwarded your posting to Donna Atwood at Selby who is keeping track of who has bloomed this monster. The opinions are that it is unlikely that 'true' A. titanum can or would grow and bloom under the conditions you describe, and that you may in fact NOT have A. titanum, but have A. paeoniifolius, a widly distrubited species which is even grown commercially in Jamaica, and the tubers exported to Florida where they are sold as a food item in Indian ethnic groceries. This (A. paeon.) is a species that can get huge, leaf up to 10 ft tall, and which can and will thrive under the conditions you describe, and could be easily mistaken for true A. titanum. Perhaps you could be so kind as to tell where you obtained the seed or small original plants of A. titanum, as all the ones in cultivation came from few sources, and also post a photo of the infloresence of your plant on the list for a positive I.D., as IF your plants are in fact A. titanum this additional info. would be very valuable to the growers who struggle to keep this tropical 'monster' alive!! Sincerely, Julius Boos +More ju-bo@msn.com >I have grown A. titanum outside in very dry, dusty conditions, in South Florida, since 1980. An Australian botanist friend of mine, had two growing outside in her nursery on St. Croix. The summers there can sometimes consist of a 6 months drought period. The plants I grew in Florida, without the benefit of good soil, supplemental water, of fertilizer, only reached about three feet in height before they bloomed. The two that bloomed had blooms about the size of dinner plates. When I dug up the plant in St. Croix, it too was about three feet in,height. The ground was very dusty and ,in spite of no visible roots, the plants were very beautiful. I did not bother taking my Florida plants with me, when I moved to St. Croix, because they were so easy to grow that there was no challenge. The plant from St. Croix is now about nine feet in height and growing in a pot of good soil in my living room. At this time it has begun going dormant.<<

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2000.04.01 at 15:11:16(4300) To make sure you may have paeoniifolius, just fumble the leaf stalk up and down and when it feels roughish, it is paeoniifolius, when it is smooth, well it could be anything. Wilbert +More -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Julius Boos Aan: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Datum: vrijdag 31 maart 2000 23:55 Onderwerp: Re: A. titanum ??? >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Kruse >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Date: Thursday, March 30, 2000 10:30 PM >Subject: Re: A. titanum leaf curl > > >Dear Paul, > >I read with MUCH interest your posting where you reported to the GREAT >surprise of many growers of this normally difficult species your sucess >in growing and flowering it under seemingly VERY adverse conditions, I even >forwarded your posting to Donna Atwood at Selby who is keeping track of who >has bloomed this monster. > >The opinions are that it is unlikely that 'true' A. titanum can or would >grow and bloom under the conditions you describe, and that you may in fact >NOT have A. titanum, but have A. paeoniifolius, a widly distrubited species >which is even grown commercially in Jamaica, and the tubers exported to >Florida where they are sold as a food item in Indian ethnic groceries. >This (A. paeon.) is a species that can get huge, leaf up to 10 ft tall, and >which can and will thrive under the conditions you describe, and could be >easily mistaken for true A. titanum. > >Perhaps you could be so kind as to tell where you obtained the seed or small >original plants of A. titanum, as all the ones in cultivation came from few >sources, and also post a photo of the infloresence of your plant on the list >for a positive > I.D., as IF your plants are in fact A. titanum this additional info. would >be very valuable to the growers who struggle to keep this tropical 'monster' >alive!! > >Sincerely, > >Julius Boos >ju-bo@msn.com > >>I have grown A. titanum outside in very dry, dusty conditions, in South >Florida, since 1980. An Australian botanist friend of mine, had two growing >outside in her nursery on St. Croix. The summers there can sometimes >consist of a 6 months drought period. The plants I grew in Florida, without >the benefit of good soil, supplemental water, of fertilizer, only reached >about three feet in height before they bloomed. The two that bloomed had >blooms about the size of dinner plates. When I dug up the plant in St. >Croix, it too was about three feet in,height. The ground was very dusty and >,in spite of no visible roots, the plants were very beautiful. > >I did not bother taking my Florida plants with me, when I moved to St. >Croix, because they were so easy to grow that there was no challenge. The >plant from St. Croix is now about nine feet in height and growing in a pot >of good soil in my living room. At this time it has begun going dormant.<< > > > >

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.04.01 at 15:15:13(4305) Dear Paul, The following may be of help to you in determining what species you actually have-- The petioles of A. titanum are described by Wilbert Hetterscheid as --petiole 1-ca. 5 m long (3-15+ft!!!)20-30 cm dia at the base, SMOOTH, green or dark green with large oval to rounded, pale green spots. The spadix of the inflorsence is basically a long, thinish conical structure, tapering from thickist near it`s base to it`s tip, with no increase in size or swelling in/near it`s middle. The spathe is a dark, bright purple with pleats like a skirt that extend from it`s to it`s inner base outwards to it`s edge. In A. paeoniifolius the petiole is described as---petiole to ca. 2 m long (+-6'), background color pale to dark green or blackish green, usually with large and small blotches and numerous tiny dark dots, the large blotches often confluent, especially near the base, SURFACE SHALLOWLY CORRUGATE TO STRONGLY ECHINATE-VERRUCATE. In other words, the petiole is generally/commonly NOT smooth in this species. The spadix also 'balloons' out just above the male floral zone, then tapers quickly to it`s tip, lots of deep vertical 'folds' occur in it`s circumference. The spathe varies in color, being from pale green to dark brown, usually with large and small, circular paler spots, inside basal area colored deep maroon, upper zone dirty whitish or very pale pinkish. The above should give you a guide to determining what species it is that was given to you. Continue to try to speak with your friend on St. Croix to detremine the source of her plants. There was a photo published in an early 'Aroideana' that mis-identified a HUGE leaf of an A. paeoniifolius as being that of a A. titanum, but this error was subsiquently corrected in a later issue in the 'errata', and maybe this is the source of the possible error in the I.D. of your plants?? Hope this helps, Sincerely, Julius +More ju-bo@msn.com >Thank you for your fast reply. I am interested in your question about the species. I obtained my first ones in 1980 and no longer remember the source. The one I have now was given to me by my Australian botanist friend in St. Croix. She was quite certain about the species. Unfortunately, I have no photographs of my plant. I am presently experimenting to try to determine the minimum amount of light necessary for normal growth. This year it is still a little on the spindly side. Next year, if it puts up a leaf, I will add another 150 watts. As far as water is concerned, it appears that if the corm puts out a shoot, under rather dry conditions, the plants put up a normal leaf, but stunted at about 3-4 feet in height. However, if the plant sprouts under moist conditions, its soil must be kept damp and a slight reduction in soil moisture immediately results in leaflet drooping. I keep the saucer filled at all times. I will call my friend in St. Croix and try to find out the source of her plants. I received all of my plants as corms about the size of a grapefruit. I will try to contact her today and will let you know. Are there any vegetative characteristics I should look for? I am a retired oceanographer with a minor in botany. With the proper amount of light this makes a beautiful house plant.<

From: "Paul Kruse" pkruse2000 at mindspring.com> on 2000.04.02 at 04:21:26(4310) Thank you for your help in the matter. Your message backs up the data I received from Julius Boos. I does appear that the plant is A. paeoniifolius. I am still playing phone tag with my Botanist friend, and the source of the plant. I will let you know what I find out, hopefully Sunday morning. Thank very much for your interest. Paul

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.04.02 at 04:21:48(4311) Dear Paul, It is good to be able to make what now appears to be a positive I.D. of the plant you honestly thought to be A. titanum as being in fact A. paeoniifolius!! The rough petiole is the clincher. This is reassuring to the growers who struggle to keep 'true' A. titanum growing and alive! Continue to enjoy growing your plants, ALL species are wonders of Nature!! Thanks for your help in this attempt. Cheers, Julius +More >I sincerely appreciate your help in the matter of identifying my amorphophallus sp. I have been playing phone tag with my botanist friend, but hope to talk tomorrow morning. Since the two plants I flowered were in 1983, and I left them behind when I moved to St. Croix, I only have a vague memory of the blooms. The one I have now is about 3 feet from my computer so I can describe it. It is certainlly starting to appear that my plant is A. phaeoniifolius. The petiole; is 1.5 meters in length and 5 cm diameter at the base. There does not appear to be any ribbing to the surface. It is, however, a light green with the irregular dark areas you described. The surface is covered with numerous, small bumps, about 1 mm in height. If my Botanist friend can remember where she got the tubers, I will let you know. No matter what species it is, I am going to continue to find out the best ;way to raise it as a house plant. Thenks again. I will be back in touch. Paul<,

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2000.04.02 at 14:59:12(4314) We once received a huge tuber here at Selby that had been incorrectly labeled Amorphophallus titanum. This was back in the early 1980's, and the tuber came of of South Florida. I suspect someone there was distributing lots of A. paeoniifolius with the name A. titanum around that time. Anyway, this impressive tuber was planted on the grounds with much fanfair, and there was even an article printed in Aroideana showing the massive plant in leaf, with the caption that it was A. titanum (this may be the picture of the leaf that you are thinking about, Julius). However, once the thing bloomed it was obviously the wrong species, and if anyone had know, we would have realized even before flowering that we did not have A. titanum because the petioles are so different. I have pictures of Mike Madison carefully planting the tuber, and some later pictures of the inflorescence. It was disppointing to know that we only had A. paeoniifolius all that time, but one should not dismiss this species so quickly. Amorph. paeoniifolius makes an impressive specimen in the S. Florida climate and thrives here, so is a wonderful addition to our sub-tropical gardens. This species, along with several others such as A. konjac, A. bulbifer, A. muelleri (once referred to in FL as the "sweet smelling bulbifer" and still often sold under the name A. bulbifer), Gonatopus bovinii, etc. will grow quite nicely in the garden, some of them multiplying to almost become weeds. It would be fun for someone to try more Amorphophallus species outdoors in Florida gardens to test cold hardiness, thus expanding our palette of Amorphophallus for outdoor horticulture. Amorphophallus titanum is just not hardy enought to live outdoors here, although we still have one plant in our Oak Grove that was planted about 5 years ago. It has dwindled each year and will probably never get large enough to flower, because it seems to be forced into dormancy each winter, usually by early December, from cold temperatures. This plant generally has not resumed growth until late July each year, so there has not been enough growing time each season each to bulk up the tuber. This plant is now half the size of the greenhouse grown specimens that were all grown from the same seed batch. +More This winter was an exception, and our A. titanum outdoors did not go dormant during the brief cold spells. This is the first winter it has survived in leaf throughout the winter...very surprising since we did have winter temperatures that periodically reached into the mid 30's F, with one night right around the holidays that approached freezing. Donna Atwood Selby Gardens

From: "Paul Kruse" pkruse2000 at mindspring.com> on 2000.04.02 at 18:23:04(4319) I just sent an e-mail to Julius Boos concerning my Amorphophallus sp. It appears that it is indeed A. paeoniifolius. An e-mail to someone else, from Selby Gardens, stated that in the early 80's someone in Florida was selling these corms by mail and identifying them as A. titanus. I will still keep experimenting with making it an attractive indoor house plant. thank you for your assistance in this matter. Paul

From: "Paul Kruse" pkruse2000 at mindspring.com> on 2000.04.02 at 18:23:24(4320) Donna Atwood. It appears that I almost certainly have Amorphophallus paeoniifolius (at least not A. titanum). My botanist friend, source of my present plant, doesn't remember the source of her tubers. Your information concerning a S. Florida source mislabeling their corms is most interesting. I received my first two plants by mail in 1980. The instructions stated that after the plants bloomed, the corms rotted. According the instructions, the dark bumps on the bottom of the corm should be cut out, air dried, then planted to produce new plants. I did this with one of my plants and did get a couple of new ones. The other corm evidently did not read the instructions and resprouted anyway. I suppose it's just as well that I don't have A. titanus, since I live in a small apartment. My present plant makes a beautiful house plant and I am going to continue experimenting on fertilizer and minimum light requirements. Your letter was very helpful. Thank you. Paul Kruse

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.04.02 at 18:23:51(4321) Hello again Paul, >Good morning Julius. I just received a telephone call from my friend on St. Croix. She is in her upper 80's and very vigorous, however, she no longer remembers where her two corms came from. The other plant still comes up every year and blooms on occasion. I have remembered that the three corms I obtained in 1980 were ordered. They were labled A. titanum.< You will note the posting of my friend Donna Atwood from Selby Bot. Garden where she says that they also received a tuber of what was labled as being Amorphophallus titanum, and that this event ALSO occured like yours in the '80`s, same time frame. I`d BET they were from the same misinformed source, and yes, the photo I remember was of the one that grew at Selby and was published as A. titanum. We now know for sure all were A. paoeniifolius, a much commoner and easier to cultivate species. > I now suspect that they could have been paeoniifolius. The instructions that came with them said that the corms rotted after blooming. They said the only way to grow new plants, after blooming, was to cut out the dark raised areas on the underside of the corm and plant them. I did this with one of the corms and did get a couple of new plants. The other plant, after blooming, came up anyway.< This too is a misconception that needs to be corrected, as several of the A. titanums now in cultivation mainly from seed collected by the late Dr. Jim Symon have continued to grow after blooming with no ill-effects. > I guess its just as well I don't have A titanum. It would be rather tight in my small apartment. Thanks ever so much for your help. The local botanical society hs just received a gift of a large plot of land and plans to put in a very large botanical garden. Considering the upscale nature of Naples, it should be a good one. Thanks again, Paul< Thanks again for going to all the trouble to obtain the information which allowed us to come to the correct conclusion concerning the correct I.D. of your plants as being Amorphophallus paeoniifolius, which as you recognise is a good thing! A. titanum, with it`s up to 15 ft. tall leaf with a spread of up to 21 ft., and 150 lb. tuber would indeed be a tight fit in you apartment!!. This conclusion prevents misinformation from spreading on this list concerning this wonderful group of plants. Write when time permits, Good growing!!! Sincerely, Julius Boos +More W.P.B., Florida ju-bo@msn.com

From: herm hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2000.04.02 at 19:18:51(4323) At 11:23 AM 04/02/2000 , Paul Kruse wrote: >Donna Atwood. It appears that I almost certainly have Amorphophallus >paeoniifolius (at least not A. titanum). My botanist friend, source of my >present plant, doesn't remember the source of her tubers. Your information >concerning a S. Florida source mislabeling their corms is most interesting. >I received my first two plants by mail in 1980. I REMEMBER THE FAKE A. TITANUMS. at the time they created a wee stir. i remember they were too inexpensive to be the real deal. HOWEVER, i thought it was an honest mistake. hermine

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2000.04.08 at 01:06:17(4352) I would have to dig back in the records to find out more about this name mix-up, but it was certainly not a deceptive act...I am sure that the source of the corms sincerely believed that they were Amorphophallus titanum. We have to be thankful for all the recent Amorphophallus papers and discussion that have taught us more about this genus. This kind of information was simply not available in the early 1980's. Donna Atwood Selby Gardens +More << It appears that I almost certainly have Amorphophallus paeoniifolius (at least not A. titanum). My botanist friend, source of my present plant, doesn't remember the source of her tubers. Your information concerning a S. Florida source mislabeling their corms is most interesting. I received my first two plants by mail in 1980. The instructions stated that after the plants bloomed, the corms rotted. According the instructions, the dark bumps on the bottom of the corm should be cut out, air dried, then planted to produce new plants. I did this with one of my plants and did get a couple of new ones. The other corm evidently did not read the instructions and resprouted anyway. >>

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