Re: [Aroid-l] Supervolute vernation vs. convolute

From: Don Bittel <donbit121 at hotmail.com> on 2010.01.21 at 05:03:53 Steve=2C etc.=2C  =3B =3B  =3B I think these drawings do make sense of this. Philodendrons would be convolute=2C with a newly forming leaf inside of the opening leaf. Anthuriums would be supervolute=2C since they don't have that leaf inside the opening leaf. Antway=2C it is a fine distinction=2C and not that important for the average grower.  =3B =3B  =3BBut I have always watched out the involute anthuriums=2C the pachyneuriums=2C since they are not all birdnest types=2C and they usually breed with each other. I've made many crosses with heart shaped leaves crossed with linear leaved rosette types. I have had watermaliense cross with convolute/supervolute types like pedato-radiatum and dressleri. The leaves come out with a mix of involute and convolute. But I have never had a birdnest type cross outside of the pachynerium section=2C with a convolute type.  =3B =3B  =3BSo=2C I would guess that 99.999 percent of the anthurium 'hookeri' plants sold anywhere are definitely not hybrids of the true hookeri=2C since I doubt it could ever cross with pachyneriums. I hope to try some of these anyway=2C when my hookeri starts to flower.  =3B =3B  =3BThanks for starting this confusing topic=2C Steve. It's been fun! Don Bittel Date: Wed=2C 20 Jan 2010 10:17:17 -0600 From: Steve@exoticrainforest.com To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com=3B abri1973@wp.pl Subject: [Aroid-l] Supervolute vernation. Finally a photo! I screwed up big time andinserted the wrong drawing. =3B These are the correct drawings from Stern's showing the placement ofthe midrib. =3B It appears the only difference in supervolute andconvolute is a leaf forming around another leaf but frankly I stilldon't have a completely satisfactory explanation. =3B I try almost daily on my website to make subjects like this clearer foranyone interested in aroids that does not have or is not interested inearning a degree in botany. =3B =3B I am now to the point of completelyremoving the subject since I am no longer sure I fully understand it orcan help anyone else to understand. =3B I don't believe any definition in print in any of the 5 botanicaldictionaries I now own make the distinction (if any) between convoluteand supervolute clear. =3B At least in the dictionaries they appear to besynonymous and are one and the same. Steve www.ExoticRainforest.com Marek Argent wrote: Steve=2C  =3B We cannot talk about vernation typesnot seeing the midrib as it is presented on the second drawing. It can =3Bas well =3Bbe a half of a leafrolled involutely.  =3B The third drawing (convolute) iswhat I thought about (but I was afraid to say) - that the term "convolute" may referonly to at least two objects like =3Bone leaf inside another one ora spadix wrapped by a spathe.  =3B Anyway in my cord photos=2C the thirdtype=2C although probably not occuring in Araceae is possible=2C so it must have a nametoo.  =3B It's becoming complicated...  =3B Marek - These drawings are from William T. Stern's Botanical Latin=2C4th edition. Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service. Get it now.--_5e487eda-9ec8-4e07-8daf-4b8a20c5ea3f_----===============0152405211359543436==

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